Laura Dekker

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Hirophant

I think it's great news that she can go, her plan is to set off in two weeks, first port of call would be Portugal which is her official starting point and obviously a good jumping off point for crossing the Atlantic. I suspect she will take a similar route to Mike Perham who IIRC at the same age took the crossing in stages via islands on the way. Remember this is not a non-stop voyage, unlike Jessica and Abby she can head into port any time she has concerns about the weather ahead of her.

Some good English language links to today's news story:

Dutch sailor, 14, gets OK for solo world trip | The Jakarta Post

Dutch court approves teen's solo sail (The Age)

I haven't been following this too closely -- is her proposed route via the Capes or the Canals? If the canals, how can she be singlehanded ?

I'm certainly not in favor of age-driven publicity stunts, but wish her well none the less.

Cheers,

Jim

[Hirophant]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I haven't been following this too closely -- is her proposed route via the Capes or the Canals? If the canals, how can she be singlehanded ?

Canals route. Apparently the dodge by which such a route is considered single-handed is that you recross the same lines of latitude after exiting the canal. This actually happens automatically with the Panama Canal since you take a West-East course through the canal when doing an East-West circumnavigation and so unavoidably cover the same ground twice if not three times. With the Suez I guess you would achieve it by sailing East a little in the Med before turning West again.

Incidentally this rule is what applied to Mike Perham too since he came back via the Panama Canal after missing his weather window for Cape Horn and sensibly (mentioning no names that spring to mind!) chose not to push his luck with winter storms.

[David M]

If she does die the question will be "Who is to blame?" along with lots of Monday morning quarterbacking, lawsuits and the whole nine yards.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Hirophant

Canals route. Apparently the dodge by which such a route is considered single-handed is that you recross the same lines of latitude after exiting the canal. This actually happens automatically with the Panama Canal since you take a West-East course through the canal when doing an East-West circumnavigation and so unavoidably cover the same ground twice if not three times. With the Suez I guess you would achieve it by sailing East a little in the Med before turning West again.

Incidentally this rule is what applied to Mike Perham too since he came back via the Panama Canal after missing his weather window for Cape Horn and sensibly (mentioning no names!) chose not to push his luck with winter storms.

G'Day Hirophant,

Thanks for the clarification... very interesting. I can now add a new reason for not being interested in these highly publicised voyages -- They're singlehanded except for when they are not, they're unassisted except when they are not, and so on. Crikey, what a crock!

Doing a circumnavigation at any age and with whatever crew is of itself a worthwhile endeavour. Adding artificial defintions, publicity, sponsorship and general hoopla only dilutes the accomplishment in my old-fart view of things.

Cheers,

Jim

[TEE]

This is nuts. She is too young and at that age cannot be expected to fully appreciate the risks. Anyone who helps her may very well be aiding and abetting a suicide. Sailing single handed around the world is a risky business even for professional skippers in ultra well prepared boats. Having these kids trying to one-up each other for the title to youngest is a dangerous and irresponsible game for the adults who help her.

[David M]

Just keep putting younger and younger children on board until the inevitable occurs. I guess after the first death we will know just how young we should go...like some wicked experiment.

Isn't this really what it is?...an experiment to see how young we can go?

Remember sending dogs into space because they were expendable? It looks to me like we have upped the ante to children.

Its no different than any other human experimentation that has been conducted. This time its being done to children who do not yet have the wisdom or life experiences to make rational decisions for themselves.

You know whats even worse? The profit motive of this human experimentation.

This is really sick when you think about what is being done.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by David M

Just keep putting younger and younger children on board until the inevitable occurs. I guess after the first death we will know just how young we should go...like some wicked experiment.

Isn't this really what it is?...a contest or experiment to see how young we can go?

Remember sending dogs into space because they were expendable? It looks to me like we have upped the ante to children.

This is really sick when you think about what is being done.

Yes, but there have also been contests to be the oldest, which I find more inspiring. Minoro Saitu and Horie Kenichi had an unofficial race a few years ago to be the first over 70 to solo circumnavigate nonstop, and Saito at 76 is attempting his 8th currently.

Minoru Saito - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kenichi Horie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I got a chance to meet Minoru at the end of the 98/99 Around Alone ... what an inspiration. GO MINORU!!

[David M]

Those that are older have the wisdom and life experiences that children do not. That is a huge difference.

Is a race to see which baby can crawl off a cliff first and maybe land on a cushion the same as a contest to see which elderly person can do the same? No, its quite different for a number of reasons.

An elderly person has the knowledge, wisdom and life experiences to know what they are getting themselves into. Children don't. Adults have also earned the right to make decisions for themselves. The law says they are now responsible for their actions. This is not so with children.

Lets stop trying to equate children with adults before we get the children into serious risk...which if you admit, the risk is the point of this venture. Without the risk, would anyone care?

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by David M

Those that are older have the wisdom and life experiences that children do not. That is a huge difference.

Is a race to see which baby can crawl off a cliff first and maybe land on a cushion the same as a contest to see which elderly person can do the same? No, its quite different for a number of reasons.

Of course there's a differences here, but my point was that there will be "experts" out there that would say these old guys shouldn't be doing what they are doing ... too old. That they could hurt themselves or someone else or need to be rescued.

Who draws the lines and where and why?

[David M]

Being mostly a libertarian, I don't care what adults do to themselves so long as they do not negatively affect others in the process. One's suicide or death negatively affects others. I draw the line at children who do not yet have the wisdom to make truly educated and rational decisions.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by David M

Being mostly a libertarian, I don't care what adults do to themselves so long as they do not negatively affect others in the process. One's suicide or death negatively affects others. I draw the line at children who do not yet have the wisdom to make truly educated and rational decisions.

Can't say I disagree with any of that, except the last sentence. Who draws the line? I guess you have to say society does, and usually through the court/judicial system. Isn't that what happened here ... the court got involved and made the final decision for society. We will never all agree on what is appropriate for children ... as long as we are willing to turn the final decision over to the courts, this is what we get.

Personally, unless there is physical or sexual abuse, I think it should be entirely up to the parents.

[David M]

I'm not for government getting involved at all. It's the ones who love the child that should decide since they are the ones who have the most at stake if she dies. And face it those of you who are all for this...she could die and being sailors you know it would not take much for this to happen.

Hopefully the parents are wise enough and mature enough to decide when a child in now a fully grown woman capable of making her own decisions based on her own life experiences and wisdom. As I see it, a 14 year old is still a girl not capable of functioning as a full adult. Of course, you can't tell any 14 year old girl that....they always know more than their parents.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by David M

Of course, you can't tell any 14 year old girl that....they always know more than their parents.

Like the saying .... "hire a teenage while they still know everything."

[Get-a-Life]

There are numerous societies and cultures that by the time a girl is 14, she has been married off, sometimes to men that are old enough to be their grandfather.

Is expected to have children, etc.

In some countries girls and boys of that age and younger are expected to die fighting for their country or cause.

So, here we have a young girl/woman who obviously knows her own mind, has put in an enormous effort to achieve her goals being told by "expert do gooders" she doesn't have a brain or a say in her future for another 4 years or more.

Give the girl and her supporters a break.

Ken

[sigmasailor]

Laura will leave for Portugal next Wednesday. This leg will be done with her father; the final improvements can be made in Portugal. The start of her solo trip is unknown.
Found all that here: Laura woensdag zeegat uit - Binnenland - Telegraaf.nl [24 uur actueel, ook mobiel] [binnenland]

Eric