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Old 26-06-2010, 17:58   #61
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Originally Posted by geckosenator
Would it be legal to have the kid in one boat and the parents nearby on another boat?
Bearing in mind that there is no "official" record, the answer is YES. When Mike Perham became the youngest to solo across the Atlantic at 14, his father was aboard an escort vessel.
According to the Perhams, his father was also single-handing a yacht so in practice the support was more psychological than practical, and they were often many miles apart. For the RTW voyage his father felt an escort would be more a liability than a help, since two vessels means twice the chance that something goes wrong... who will end up rescuing who? I think he's right, unless you follow the yacht in a pretty big ship you're not going to be able to provide genuine support, something that the conspiracy theorists who claim some of these voyages were shadowed by support vessels conveniently overlook. Even that French fishing ship which saved Abby would have had a pretty tough time helping her if there'd still been 12m waves around.

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Originally Posted by bella
Another point, in the current climate, a traditional circumnavigation for a female in the Indian ocean is just simply asking for problems. Perhaps some forget what Islam thinks of women without male "supervision".
All these girls have been sailing in the Southern Indian Ocean, over 3000 miles from Somalia, this is a long way outside the operating area of the pirates. As for islam, I don't really see the relevance, the Indian Ocean is bordered by many countries and probably the nearest moslem state to Abby/Jessica would have been Indonesia which was still 2000 miles away, and anyway plenty of westerners go on holidays to that area.

Laura Dekker's voyage will take her past N. Australia and southern Indonesia, but from there she will head SW to Cape Town if there is still a pirate problem and avoid the northern Indian Ocean entirely.
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Old 27-06-2010, 10:48   #62
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Another point, in the current climate, a traditional circumnavigation for a female in the Indian ocean is just simply asking for problems. Perhaps some forget what Islam thinks of women without male "supervision".
That's your concern?
First, there are plenty of Muslims who have no problem with unsupervised females. Most of the ones I grew up with, for example.
Second, even the ones that do feel women should always be escorted generally recognize that it is a rule that applies to their own religion. (Like the "women shouldn't drive" thing.) They may feel other religions are incorrect, but they mostly recognize that other belief systems have their own rules and allow us to follow them, however foolish they may think we are.
And third, of that very small group that falls into the extremist category -- my guess is very few of them are wandering around the south Indian Ocean in the first place.

There are legitimate points of debate in whether these young people should be out there (weather conditions & experience and all that) but I don't think this one is worth worrying about.
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Old 27-06-2010, 16:07   #63
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~~~~~
Another point, in the current climate, a traditional circumnavigation for a female in the Indian ocean is just simply asking for problems. Perhaps some forget what Islam thinks of women without male "supervision
~~~~~
YMMV
Pirate attacks occur above 10S. (There have been a handful down to 15S in the Mozambique Channel along the African coast)
To consider them as a "problem" down at 30-35S (Where Jessica was) or 40-45S (Abby's choice - which had other problems) is akin to worrying about UFO abduction.
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Old 21-07-2010, 11:12   #64
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Once they are legally adult they can place themselves in danger if they wish.
A court in the Netherlands plans to ban Laura to sail around the world for a full year.

Dutch child care agencies disagree whether 14-year-old Laura Dekker is ready to sail the world - latimes.com

The court stated to the press: "Our focus is not is she able to sail, because she can sail," "Our focus is her social and physical development, that is our concern."

The concern by general public and some people here has been that a girl below 18 is a child who must be protected, by principle, regardless of skill or safety awareness.

The court didn't mention that aspect, age alone, as a reason to stop her. They also gave up the sailing skill requirement. Instead they try to find principles like "social development", even if she does not go non-stop.

Is age alone a reason to stop the planned voyage, avoid "child endangerment", as many believe ?
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Old 21-07-2010, 12:10   #65
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Old 21-07-2010, 20:30   #66
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I think it's really bad that they've moved the goalposts like this. They seem to see her as some kind of performing dog who should jump through hoops for their pleasure only to be told "actually we were never going to let you go anyway".

If they never intended to let her go they should have said so at the beginning instead of setting her tasks and then sitting back whilst she went to all the expense of buying a new boat, fitting it out, doing all that training, and putting in all that effort. She should sue them for the costs of the endeavour, and they should be made to do community service on peoples boats e.g. sanding down and repainting boats, see how they like having to do all that effort for no reason.

Something that struck me reading her blog over recent months was that despite feeling that they were meddling in her affairs, she undertook the tasks set in good spirit, she didn't moan about all the effort of doing up a new boat or going on all these courses, she made the best of the situation and treated it all as a positive learning experience. But they have repaid her good faith with bad faith, and double crossed her.
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Old 22-07-2010, 01:24   #67
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If they never intended to let her go they should have said so at the beginning
I completely agree with you. It was almost like the court was afraid to say "I'm sorry, but you're under 18 so you cannot go on your own".
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Old 22-07-2010, 06:45   #68
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They plan to ban her for a full year, so she will not have to visit the court every month.

If the is released late July 2011, and she prepares to be ready to sail by then. Then she would still able to break the age record by sailing within one year, not two.

But then she must race for it, that is prioritize speed more, reduce the number of stops. Avoid waiting for weather windows etc.

And above all, it will be hard to avoid the hurricane seasons, if reaching the Caribbean in August/September. If she shall wait until the end of the hurricane season in November, she might miss the record.

My guess is that the court would not like her to go before age 16 (20 September 2011).
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Old 22-07-2010, 07:44   #69
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" My guess is that the court would not like her to go before age 16 (20 September 2011)."

You may be right, but the court should say so and that way nobody has to guess.
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Old 22-07-2010, 08:14   #70
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That's your concern?
First, there are plenty of Muslims who have no problem with unsupervised females. Most of the ones I grew up with, for example.
Second, even the ones that do feel women should always be escorted generally recognize that it is a rule that applies to their own religion. (Like the "women shouldn't drive" thing.) They may feel other religions are incorrect, but they mostly recognize that other belief systems have their own rules and allow us to follow them, however foolish they may think we are.
And third, of that very small group that falls into the extremist category -- my guess is very few of them are wandering around the south Indian Ocean in the first place.
There are some extreme Christian sects who have belief systems that treat women far worse than even the extreme Muslim organisations.

Some people are ars**oles doesnt matter what colour race or religion they belong to. Those people will find a quotation that appears to allow them to do what they really want to do - which is control every aspect of people's life to the satisfaction of the "master".
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Old 22-07-2010, 18:57   #71
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Hirophant, bengtinge, and mintyspilot summed it up very well.

Prediction: At this point the judge is probably more pissed off than Laura Dekker. If nothing changes, and after carefully noting that the court neither approves nor disapproves of the proposed adventure, then on the 27th he/she will dissolve the guardianship and dismiss this case because the proposed level of intervention has become intolerably extreme. I think most judges would jump at the chance to avoid sitting in judgment on the "emotional development" necessary to solo sail around the world.
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Old 23-07-2010, 04:28   #72
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I think most judges would jump at the chance to avoid sitting in judgment on the "emotional development" necessary to solo sail around the world.
A teenager who only watch TV etc, and does nothing responsible remains a child. If they have to take responsibility and get experience with adult tasks, they mature.

Maybe the court worries that she will mature too early. A principle is "let children remain children", that is why child labour is not wanted.

I think the court seems insensitive to her wish. If she wants to grow up and do such an adventure starting already before age 15, she could do it.

If the court has dropped the child safety aspect (extra protection just because of the age) and the concerns on sailing and safety skill, they don't have much reason left to stop her.
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Old 24-07-2010, 07:21   #73
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The acquisition of wisdom isn't the only hallmark of adulthood. Children have physically underdeveloped brains.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/09/the-teen-brain.html
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Old 24-07-2010, 08:02   #74
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The acquisition of wisdom isn't the only hallmark of adulthood. Children have physically underdeveloped brains.

The Teen Brain | Harvard Magazine Sep-Oct 2008
So do a lot of adults.
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Old 24-07-2010, 08:12   #75
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Please don't post anything with harvard in the name like it has a chance to be anywhere near fact or truth.
We are in the middle of a stunning demonstration of how incompetent the folks from harvard are right now, here in the US!
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