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Old 17-06-2010, 14:25   #31
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To be honest I'm reaching the conclusion that the best thing is to let these people risk their kids' lives sailing around the place until one of the kids gets badly injured or killed.
I'm inclined to agree. The problem with child services intervention is:

a. They are often clueless and incompetent. Per the Pete Thomas article California intervened with Abby Sunderland but their only concern was whether she was being coerced:

Perspective from a reporter who has sailed with Abby Sunderland

OR

b. They unwittingly set themselves up as ratification bodies. The Dutch are requiring Laura to get a first aid certificate, keep up with school work, get used to lack of sleep, etc. As a result, when they terminate supervision, the Dutch government will appear to be sanctioning her voyage.
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Old 17-06-2010, 14:31   #32
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Back to the Goat

Well you can hardly call having a 24/7 "team" on shore like our famous 16 year olds, singelhanding. With the comments here about remote control, lets sponnsor DOJ to send his goat around. Although if the goat was injured or stressed in any way he might be in breach of animal cruelty laws.
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Old 17-06-2010, 14:49   #33
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I'm inclined to agree. The problem with child services intervention is:

a. They are often clueless and incompetent.
Sadly true here in the UK as well

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b. They unwittingly set themselves up as ratification bodies. The Dutch are requiring Laura to get a first aid certificate, keep up with school work, get used to lack of sleep, etc. As a result, when they terminate supervision, the Dutch government will appear to be sanctioning her voyage.
That is just so stupid. They are inventing reasons to stop her instead of saying to her parents "If she wants to sail then go with her. She can go solo when she is 18".

What the hell is up with the world nowadays? Why are adults so frightened of being adults? Why are we all so terrified of upsetting children? That is the real story here.
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Old 17-06-2010, 15:28   #34
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Has anybody done that yet??

In all seriousness, that might be pretty cool. An automated/RC yacht race around the world.
I read about a small race once like this. But hey, this could be a great service, sailing other peoples yachts or making adjustments for them on the internet for a fee. You could sign in, make an adjustment, sign out and move on to the next yacht on your work queue.

But what would happen if the CC bounced?
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Old 17-06-2010, 15:46   #35
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Maybe its time to stop worrying about qualifications and preparations for solo RTW and start worrying about qualifications and preparations for parenting!!!
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Old 17-06-2010, 15:57   #36
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Well, there are numerous problems in the world, over population among them. Perhaps folks should be left for Darwin and Wallace's theory to do it's work. There is a part of me that wants government, any and all of 'em, to have their ability to declare anything a crime , permanently neutered, where there is not a victim. That, in itself, would empty the prisons of the US of about 70% of the 2 million+ inmates, costing taxpayers $70k-80k per inmate per year. Yes, one can see these kids as victims, but that is not always the case it appears to me. As to the rescuers, they all practice continually and a rescue is a fulfillment. How it is paid for in money is another matter. Perhaps the money we saved releasing those imprisoned for victimless crimes, could more than pay for all the rescues.

Let people sail off alone, smoke what they please, stick pencils up their noses if they wish. I have seen child protective services up close as a former lover was a lawyer in the system. It is a shambles everywhere, and in some places an absolute danger to the physical and mental health of the children caught in it's net, and often destructive to whatever family structure remains. No bureaucracy can replace the ties of family, granting the sad fact that some of those ties themselves are toxic, but not in every case where they're abused.

It seems to me, that what sticks in our subconscious craw the most, is that these child circumnavigations, paid for by others, and supported and guided daily and hourly by a 24/7 high-tech team effort, makes what we know to be a noble, dangerous and lonely enterprise seem like child's play.
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Old 17-06-2010, 15:58   #37
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Very well said (#29), mintyspilot.
Thanks.
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Old 17-06-2010, 16:03   #38
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...No bureaucracy can replace the ties of family, granting the sad fact that some of those ties themselves are toxic, but not in every case where they're abused....
Granted, but there is no strong family tie here. I take it as a grandiose fantasy of a child to find a greater identity outside of the mess of her circumstances. It's not the same as the way of the Sunderlands.
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Old 17-06-2010, 16:08   #39
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It seems to me, that what sticks in our subconscious craw the most, is that these child circumnavigations, paid for by others, and supported and guided daily and hourly by a 24/7 high-tech team effort, makes what we know to be a noble, dangerous and lonely enterprise seem like child's play.
What actually sticks in my craw is that these "dangerous and lonely enterprises" are set up and publicised by the parents who then take no risk on themselves. Instead they place it on their child.

As a parent of teenage girls myself, I allow them a lot of leeway to make their own decisions, but I will NEVER, NEVER, EVER, deliberately and with forethought, place them in situations with a high probability of personal danger or harm.

Once they are legally adult they can place themselves in danger if they wish. Even then, as their parent, I would try to minimise any danger to them or assist with mitigating it, or talk them out of it, but at that stage they are adults and must be allowed to make their own way in life.

Whilst they are minors it is my DUTY and my RESPONSIBILITY to care for them and protect them and raise them to adulthood. I would be delinquent if I did otherwise.
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Old 17-06-2010, 16:50   #40
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There is no need to change *maritime* law. What needs doing is to enforce existing laws on child safety and parental responsibility.
While I'm in no way qualified to render a legal opinion, it seems to me that we have a whole class of child endangerment laws that would apply in such situations.
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Old 17-06-2010, 17:28   #41
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Granted, but there is no strong family tie here. I take it as a grandiose fantasy of a child to find a greater identity outside of the mess of her circumstances. It's not the same as the way of the Sunderlands.
It occurs to me that the above emboldened statement is just another definition of the much ballyhooed Dream we hear so often on CF and all other sailing forums. How many adults declare their need, intent or history of escaping the mind-numbing existence they have/had within whatever corner of civilization they live/lived in. It also occurs to me that many of these strong urges to go to sea result from some atavistic or ancestral memory or yearning. Perhaps Jessica's great great great great grandfather was a salty dog who spent a lifetime at sea and she's just picked up the genes that lay dormant in her more recent ancestors or was expressed weakly as it might be in a racing sailor, for example.

I don't mean to minimize the serious danger many kids find themselves in, but almost all of those poor devils are on land. Whether these girls, any or all of them, have stage parents I have no way of knowing. Impuning a strangers motivations is a foolish errand. But, OTOH, as my tall red-headed Texas friend Ginger is fond of saying, "You can't trust people who don't gossip 'cause it shows they don't care about other people."
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Old 17-06-2010, 17:41   #42
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speakeasy - didn't quite understand all that rhetoric of yours, but yes adults making grandiose gestures of "Hey I'm going to sail around the world!" then finding out the realities of the journey don't quite map to their fantasies. The yacht yards are littered with sailboats for sale across the carib and pacific islands from just such statements. Great place to pick up a deal.

As for this one, it's pretty clear to me what "enabling" circumstances are, and the motivations behind her move. Sad more than anything. I think we will be seeing more copy cats now that Abby is across the press.
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Old 17-06-2010, 17:41   #43
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Perhaps Jessica's great great great great grandfather was a salty dog who spent a lifetime at sea and she's just picked up the genes that lay dormant in her more recent ancestors or was expressed weakly as it might be in a racing sailor, for example.
Hmmm . . . if you go back enough "great, greats," it could well be that her ancestor indeed came to Australia aboard a sailing vessel . . . one of the prison ships the British used to transport their incorrigible criminals to the other side of the planet.

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Old 17-06-2010, 17:52   #44
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Hmmm . . . if you go back enough "great, greats," it could well be that her ancestor indeed came to Australia aboard a sailing vessel . . . one of the prison ships the British used to transport their incorrigible criminals to the other side of the planet.

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Aye! And a lovely ship she was, the Auriga, which took a goodly percentage of the new Australians to their home from England. (Painting of Auriga loading passengers and cargo for Australia, by John Groves)

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Old 17-06-2010, 17:56   #45
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Aye! And a lovely ship she was, the Auriga, which took a goodly percentage of the new Australians to their home from England. (Painting of Auriga loading passengers and cargo for Australia, by John Groves)
Isn't that an S+S 34?
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