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Old 28-08-2009, 21:57   #76
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I've been reading on this site for quite awhile. Some guys already made conclusions without knowing the facts. Is she capable? Even the govt are still reconsidering if she is indeed capable of doing so and some nuts in here are already judging her capabilities. Some guys in here are saying she will sail non stop? Are you nuts? She doesn't intend to do a non stop. Circumnavigating doesn't mean it's always non stop. Don't forget they are people who are gifted, genius in lay man term. Those who can do things brilliantly at such a young age. Maybe they are just too conservative maybe jealous because they haven't had the chance or even that capability at such a young age. GROW UP!
Grow up...exactly! How about until at least you reach puberty? I guess I'm just one of the wackos who think sending a child out to sea at this age all by herself is a horrible idea. And I know this isn't gonna be a popular statement, but there is a difference in a boy and a girl of the same age (this young anyway). Different regions of the world do not hold that genders are equal as must of the 1st world nations do.
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Old 28-08-2009, 22:21   #77
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When will it end? As a parent I can't forsee any amount of experience or maturity that would be enough to allow this. It concerns me that a child as young as this would be put in situations that a circumnavigation could encounter.
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Old 13-09-2009, 07:24   #78
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Its all in your mind!!

I like the story but and the question is how mently strong she is, and for what we know she can have more mentaly stamina than any one of you out there, beeing only 13. I know poeople whit no exeperience at all just took of and sail over the atlantic ond back again, the didnt cross seas like cape horn or cape faerwell, but anyway, they where mentaly strong both of them. The age usaly has a lot to say, but sometimes poeple just seems to be wery bright and fysicaly strong only as teenagers.

You go girl!!
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Old 13-09-2009, 07:55   #79
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- - Actually a lot of people have died on circumnavigations, usually the much older people (in their second childhood) - should they be "prevented" like the very young? The very old, are very much like the very young - they are maybe lacking in the full perception of reality. But the young have one big advantage the very old do not have - they are physically flexible and not brittle like the very old. The young can survive being beaten up in a storm and continue on, not so with the very old.
- - Old enough? is an extreme variable depending upon the "eon of history" you are looking at. Ten year old's are sent off to war/battle with rifles and automatic weapons in a lot of places on this planet. Are they less "at risk" than this young girl in a well-found boat. Certainly, George Wade's Uncle was deemed "old enough" during his era. What makes the 21st Century so much different than the 20th Century or before?
- - Maybe the answer is that back then people had "freedom" to follow their dreams and run their own lives. Now we have legislated our "freedom" away in pursuit of the holy grail of "security."
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Old 13-09-2009, 09:08   #80
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the judge has spoken ...
And now, her mother speakes.

Laura Dekker "can sail like the devil," her mom says. But the 13-year-old "is not yet grown up" enough to travel around the world by herself in a 26-foot sailboat.

Laura's parents are divorced. She lives with her father, who supports the voyage. Muller had implied she supported it, too, but now concedes she was only supporting the trip because Laura had threatened to stop seeing her if she tried to stop her.

"It breaks my heart that I may lose contact with her," Muller told the newspaper. "I have never in my life had to make such a difficult decision. But I would rather have a living daughter whom I do not see than a dead daughter."

Laura Dekker's mom says daughter, 13, is too young to sail around the world | Outposts | Los Angeles Times

Mother comes out against Dutch girl's solo sail | International | Reuters
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Old 13-09-2009, 09:25   #81
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From Gordmay's post - IMHO, That is why children should have both parents involved in raising them. The child needs a balance of guidance. One parent to inspire and implant drive to succeed and another to provide the caution and common sense needed so that their success or failure is not the "singular/final" event in the child's life. They will be around to pursue more successes and failures. Single parent families -IMHO - are a significant factor in the decline and fall of our western society. Of course, there are a hundred, if not more exceptions, except that I use the term "parent" without gender reference, and also to connote "involved" parenting.
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Old 13-09-2009, 09:58   #82
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I have not read the whole thread, but im with the mother hands down, the father must be Fuc$#@* crazy to even think she can handle this alone at that age- No way any 13 year old is ready for this just no way, Id kick the old mans ass if I was anywhere I could get my hands on him shame on this stupid man! ok Flame me now!! what is the point in this anyway?? So he can say his daughter did it at age 13?
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Old 13-09-2009, 11:20   #83
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I have not read the whole thread, but im with the mother hands down, the father must be Fuc$#@* crazy to even think she can handle this alone at that age- No way any 13 year old is ready for this just no way, Id kick the old mans ass if I was anywhere I could get my hands on him shame on this stupid man! ok Flame me now!! what is the point in this anyway?? So he can say his daughter did it at age 13?

Flame you?
I'd probably hold him for you.
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Old 13-09-2009, 11:55   #84
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Somebody please post the name and if possible the address of this child's parents - I'd like to personally beat the crap out of them for being so negligent. The only thing for which I feel sorry is that I doubt I'd get there first.
Jumping to a conclusions LOL
Aaaah yes a mature response to a conflict. Irresponsible, negligent parents. 13 years of doing an excellent job of raising their child, (to have hopes and dreams and make them goals). 1 thing some people disagree with and suddenly they are bad parents.

Excellent analysis and problem solving skills some people have. Lets hope the author of the above quotation has no children, obvious he/she condones violence as a solution to a disagreement. Does that make a fit parent? Not in my opinion, take the kids from him/her.
It is so easy to condemn and judge people based on lack of information and jump to conclusions. LOL

On a serious note.
To drive you need to be 16 and prove competency through a test and then on trial for 2 years (here in BC, 1 accident there goes your license). A motorcycle license starts with restrictions to daylight hours and not traveling on roads with a posted speed of 80kpm or higher. So rather than focus only on the age, why not implement international laws. A person must be x years (arbitrary) and prove competency to obtain a 'license' (with vessel restrictions and sailing restrictions) and without that license no country will allow the person to operate a vessel.
We are starting here with the PCOC as the first step. It won't guarantee anything but it does start educating people on safe operations and competency.
I have my PCOC and Basic Cruising certificate, technically I am certified for daylight, line of sight inland or coastal cruising. If 'caught' violating this certification I would accept laws impounding my vessel, fines, whatever.... I know the 'rules' and broke them.
As the experience builds (supported by my log) I can take coastal navigation, intermediate and offshore cruising, celestial navigation classes and exams.

Will this solve the current situation, no BUT it would prevent 10, 11, 12 years olds in the future attempting this. Just an idea!

PCOC Pleasure Craft Operators Certificate
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Old 13-09-2009, 12:10   #85
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I dont think we need more laws for the very few who would try such a stunt-

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Jumping to a conclusions LOL
Aaaah yes a mature response to a conflict. Irresponsible, negligent parents. 13 years of doing an excellent job of raising their child, (to have hopes and dreams and make them goals). 1 thing some people disagree with and suddenly they are bad parents.

Excellent analysis and problem solving skills some people have. Lets hope the author of the above quotation has no children, obvious he/she condones violence as a solution to a disagreement. Does that make a fit parent? Not in my opinion, take the kids from him/her.
It is so easy to condemn and judge people based on lack of information and jump to conclusions. LOL

On a serious note.
To drive you need to be 16 and prove competency through a test and then on trial for 2 years (here in BC, 1 accident there goes your license). A motorcycle license starts with restrictions to daylight hours and not traveling on roads with a posted speed of 80kpm or higher. So rather than focus only on the age, why not implement international laws. A person must be x years (arbitrary) and prove competency to obtain a 'license' (with vessel restrictions and sailing restrictions) and without that license no country will allow the person to operate a vessel.
We are starting here with the PCOC as the first step. It won't guarantee anything but it does start educating people on safe operations and competency.
I have my PCOC and Basic Cruising certificate, technically I am certified for daylight, line of sight inland or coastal cruising. If 'caught' violating this certification I would accept laws impounding my vessel, fines, whatever.... I know the 'rules' and broke them.
As the experience builds (supported by my log) I can take coastal navigation, intermediate and offshore cruising, celestial navigation classes and exams.

Will this solve the current situation, no BUT it would prevent 10, 11, 12 years olds in the future attempting this. Just an idea!
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Old 13-09-2009, 12:27   #86
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I look at all the crap being said in this thread and recognise that very few people have made any corollary between age and maturity.

What this youngster need to achieve her dream is maturity. The fact that she has been waterborne for most of her life would suggest that she has a higher level of maturity than most europeans of the same age.

Then you need to look at history and other continents and consider that marriage at 10 years old in some societies has been considered to be satisfactory (I personally dont agree but stay with me until the end of my arguement).

Thus age cannot be the sole arbiter of decisions. You need to look at the whole life experience and capabilities of the person.

Some countries consider child soldiers as acceptable where the ability to be actually able to be strong enough to hold the weapon is the decision. Whereas a european faced with the decision to kill such a soldier may need years of psychotherapy (I would hope so) .

What I am trying to say is that an arbitary age is a simple media decision, whereas the decision based on capability is so fundamentally difficult, that I am not surprised that people wish to chose the simple solution.
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Old 13-09-2009, 12:31   #87
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I dont think we need more laws for the very few who would try such a stunt-
Not just to address stunts, how about basic boating safety in and of itself. Unfortunately aren't most laws to address the 'outsiders' and not the average person. Why do we have drivers licenses, in the early days we didn't. Anyone could drive. I grew up on a farm and been running the tractor since I was 7 and operated the hay truck at 9. Why can't I drive on the road. Maturity, ability, competence. A means of testing the person's actual abilities.
As more and more people engage in watersport activities, do we not need some means to ensure safety on the water. Simple things like controlling/penalizing the idiot that attempted to cut between me and my towboat while waterskiing. Report him and get him off the water, drunken sot. LOL

My marina required insurance, my insurer required my PCOC and certificate for Basic cruising. This protects the marina, me and my fellow sailors.

My field of work is unregulated now however to stop anyone doing the job, it is forming an association. Soon everyone in the field will either need formal education or documented experience or combination of both (Diploma + 2 years, Bachelor + 1 yr.) Those being grandfathered in with no formal education will have to document their work and skills used to prove competency. Is it a money grab or to ensure specific standards are being met. Some think a money grab only. I see it as ensuring our clients are getting competent trainers, all working to the same standards.


Of course setting regs or laws for boating may be difficult. The PCOC is required for operating boats with an engine. Thus I need a PCOC (proving my knowledge and competency)to operate a fishing skiff 14' long with a 12 horse engine, BUT I can operate a 60' sailboat with no engine without my PCOC. The fun of rules and regulations.
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Old 13-09-2009, 13:01   #88
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At this age who among us knew what we really wanted,most folks 2-3 times this age dont know what they want or who they are- i think this dream is likly the fathers dream - with a 13 year old how many years experence would you have? 4-5-6 maybe? I think at some point age can be the deciding factor , No matter how mature a kid at 13 is, I would say the kid is still too young to make this kind of trip- just checking into the many different countrys is going to be more than most kids that age could handle-hec its not easy for me when i check into a country where no one speaks my lango!



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I look at all the crap being said in this thread and recognise that very few people have made any corollary between age and maturity.

What this youngster need to achieve her dream is maturity. The fact that she has been waterborne for most of her life would suggest that she has a higher level of maturity than most europeans of the same age.

Then you need to look at history and other continents and consider that marriage at 10 years old in some societies has been considered to be satisfactory (I personally dont agree but stay with me until the end of my arguement).

Thus age cannot be the sole arbiter of decisions. You need to look at the whole life experience and capabilities of the person.

Some countries consider child soldiers as acceptable where the ability to be actually able to be strong enough to hold the weapon is the decision. Whereas a european faced with the decision to kill such a soldier may need years of psychotherapy (I would hope so) .

What I am trying to say is that an arbitary age is a simple media decision, whereas the decision based on capability is so fundamentally difficult, that I am not surprised that people wish to chose the simple solution.
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Old 13-09-2009, 13:08   #89
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Maybe they have child support laws like the US and the dad is trying to get out of it.
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Old 13-09-2009, 13:12   #90
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I started a new thread, dealing with opinions on ages/ rules/ regulating in general rather than hi-jack Laura's thread. Licensing Boaters hopefully the link works.
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