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Old 23-05-2010, 12:03   #901
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But of course! He's a boy! So that's okay!
You may be right that this is a part of it, certainly we still have different beliefs about appropriate behavior for girls & boys.
BUT - it should be noted that Jordan's father was part of his climbing team (on all of his ascents, not just this one), and Dad is a certified emergency medical technician. So it's maybe not quite an equal comparison.
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Old 23-05-2010, 12:24   #902
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Man I hate it when this thing times out....

I've only just read the Report into the collision...
In my view the watchkeeper DID NOT do everything possible to avert the collision.. merely followed the ColRegs by rote.. he should have sounded a warning.
Jessica Watson also did not do everything possible either..
She should have first eyeballed 360 and then compared the info with her instruments before going to bed.
To me this is indicative of the increasing overreliance of small boat owners on the questionable infallibility of their 'Gadgets' to tell them everything, change course remotely etc.. making for lazy sailors and raising the chances of collisions.
"Why go top side...? I can see/do everything from my Chart table.."

The International Regulations for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea (COLREGS), or “rules of the road” observed by every vessel, requires both vessels in a potential collision situation to take appropriate steps to avoid the collision. If the collision does occur, it means that there must be contributing safety factors relating to the operation of both vessels.
This collision highlights the ATSB’s ongoing concerns about collisions involving trading ships and smaller vessels with 35 investigations into such collisions since 1990. Most concerning for the ATSB is that 20 ships did not stop following the collision, which did not happen in this instance. The ATSB has already done a considerable amount of work to address the safety issues we have identified in these collisions and we are actively working both within Australia and internationally, to address the issue of ships failing to stop and render assistance.

Australia - The preliminary report on Jessica Watson's collision with the Silver Yang has been released by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau. The results are inconclusive, however it appears that several things went wrong on both vessels, and that neither vessel took adequate steps to avoid the collision. There are several things in the report which cause particular concern.

First, Ella’s Pink Lady, Jessica's boat, did not detect the vessel when it was only one mile away. Jessica apparently stated that she had used the radar to scan for vessels, and had set up alarms. Of course, if the vessel was already within the range set on the alarms, or was not visible to the radar due to gain or sea clutter settings, the alarm would not work.

Secondly, the report states that Jessica was able to hail the vessel by name after referring to the AIS. The AIS should have identified the ship earlier, had she been using it, and had the ship been transmitting its identification properly.

Thirdly, the Silver Yang seems to have only taken evasive action by way of changing course, and there is no mention of it attempting to hail Ella’s Pink Lady via VHF, or to use light and/or sound signals (spotlights or horns/bells/loudhailer) in an attempt to contact the smaller vessel's skipper.

The question most often asked in these situations is: "Who had right of way?" COLREGS Rule 18 states that a power vessel is to give way to a vessel under sail, however a vessel under sail must give way to a power vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver. The Silver Yang was also to the starboard of Ella’s Pink Lady, which is why the watch reported seeing a green light to port.

Things are rarely cut-and-dried in these cases, which is why this investigation will continue. At the bottom of it all is COLREGS Rule 5, however, which states: "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." Under this rule, of course, no solo sailor could ever sleep.
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Old 23-05-2010, 13:44   #903
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... as Fangio said... "I'm not interested in how it works... I just drive em".. (rough quote) ...
I cannot find any such unlikely* statement by "F1" legend Juan Fangio.
* Fangio was a mechanic, by trade.

I’m not certain that/how your comments regarding “certainty” and “Thalidomide” apply to this discussion.

Unlike truth, “Certainty” is usually measured in degrees.
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Old 23-05-2010, 14:17   #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
I cannot find any such unlikely* statement by "F1" legend Juan Fangio.
* Fangio was a mechanic, by trade.

I’m not certain that/how your comments regarding “certainty” and “Thalidomide” apply to this discussion.

Unlike truth, “Certainty” is usually measured in degrees.
Gord... Hey..
You asked if I was certain about an Aussie Physicist...
which had nothing to do with COLREG'S
I said the Experts claimed Thalidomide was a certainty..
which had nothing to do with syphons...
I vaguely remembered hearing a saying being accredited to Fangio.. might have been an old movie.. God knows... which had nothing to do with Atmospheric Pressure...

Monkey hear... Monkey say...

As to what its got to do with this discussion...??
"I know the answer to that...." Eeeerr...? Thread Drift..??
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Old 23-05-2010, 16:01   #905
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Phil:
Non-sequiturs*, which are also factually wrong**, don’t advance an opinion.

* Jessica Watson's Round the World Voyag
** You raised the questionable issue of the siphon definition, the benefits & dangers of Thalidomide, & misquoted Fangio.
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Old 23-05-2010, 17:16   #906
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Gord... Re Jessica Watsons Voyage... with an E if we're going to be pendantic
Was a copy and paste from the initial report... in which she said she checked her instruments.. she did not state she looked around up top as well... if she had she'd have seen the ship....
The watchkeeper of the ship stated he did not sound a warning by sound and did not alter course or speed till the last minute... and then 10deg's.. even though he was aware of her speed and track..
Judging by the size and speed of the ship its unlikely her track changed more than 250metres off the original course..
Therefore both were guilty of negligence but the watchkeeper was guilty of criminal negligence in as much he knew that it would not avert a collision.. merely lessen the effects.
My stated opinion... if you disagree from personal knowledge/experience then say so.. thats fine... but these cryptic Wiki etc; extracts don't exactly encourage me to respond in a serious manner... its more like a game..
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Old 23-05-2010, 17:19   #907
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One seemed only to rely on instruments...
the other only on COLREG's... the outcome was inevitable.
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Old 23-05-2010, 18:58   #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Phil:
Non-sequiturs*, which are also factually wrong**, don’t advance an opinion.

* Jessica Watson's Round the World Voyag
** You raised the questionable issue of the siphon definition, the benefits & dangers of Thalidomide, & misquoted Fangio.
You raised the questionable issue of the siphon definition, was a tongue in cheek quip re a possible misprint and bad editing in the RYA Day Skipper book I have... the siphon issue had appeared on Sky News, including an interview with the man himself.. no I don't believe everything on TV... remember tongue in cheek?
You questioned the certainty of my statement... I responded to the effect that Experts are always certain... till their certainty screws up.. eg; Thalidomide.. extreme I know, as there are countless other examples to choose from...
As for Fangio.. is it really important... did he make or not make a flip remark to someone... who knows.. who really cares...
Maybe an expert... but its far from a Life and Death issue... yes.. I know..
Its pedantic
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Old 23-05-2010, 19:34   #909
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In order to preserve the thread of the "journey" and not have it spoiled with the "afterparty" of the journey and inevitable drift off topic the mod team has decided to close the "journey" thread at this time.

We are reviewing what to do with this thread and whether to reopen it and let it run it's course.


If there are other relevant discussions to be had post-trip please feel free to start another thread. A couple of ideas -

- Girls vs. boys
- Mountain climbing
- Obscure F1 quotes
- Jessica Memorabilia
- Horn blasts for fun and profit
- What the heck does restricted in maneuverability mean , anyway!
- Thalidomide. A bad idea or just an expert making a mistake?
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