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Old 10-02-2010, 15:37   #451
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Just for kicks I recreated a map I know I've seen somewhere that traces the route R-K-J took and shows the antipodes. I did it using the map from the R-K-J wiki page and while I eye-balled (Edit: badly) it a bit as I did it in Photoshop I don't think I'm too far off (Edit: but I forgot to flip the yellow horizontally).

Credit to whoever did the map I tried to re-create, no plagiarism intended.

I'll see if I can do the same with Jessica's progress map just to see how close she gets (Edit: but only after I correct this one).


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Old 10-02-2010, 15:44   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenG View Post
Could you provide a reference for that in any way being attributed to Robin Knox-Johnson ?

While your point is moot since Jessica is not going after any official record it is appropriate that R-K-J be recognized for indeed rounding two antipodal points. I doubt Pink Lady's captain would want to deprive him of that recognition as she makes progress in her quest.


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Perhaps Slomotion is referring to Knox-Johnson's first solo non-stop circumnavigation, which he achieved as the only finisher of the inaugural Golden Globe Race. The rules for that race, which have broadly rolled down to the Vendee Globe, did not require passing antipodal points. They were basically as described by Slomotion, with the addition that the start and finish should be in England.

And I'm not sure that Slomotion is Pink Lady's captain, although I could be wrong!
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Old 10-02-2010, 15:50   #453
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but only after I correct this one
Here is the corrected one. I sure hope I didn't mess up again in my rush !




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Old 10-02-2010, 15:58   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenG View Post
Just for kicks I recreated a map I know I've seen somewhere that traces the route R-K-J took and shows the antipodes. I did it using the map from the R-K-J wiki page and while I eye-balled (Edit: badly) it a bit as I did it in Photoshop I don't think I'm too far off (Edit: but I forgot to flip the yellow horizontally).

Credit to whoever did the map I tried to re-create, no plagiarism intended.

I'll see if I can do the same with Jessica's progress map just to see how close she gets (Edit: but only after I correct this one).


-Sven
R-K-J's route took him through an antipodeal pair simply because he started in England and then had to round the 3 southern capes.

Jessica would have needed to sail near the Atlantic equator to achieve an antipodeal pair, a bit pointless since she has crossed the Pacific equator twice already, and in any case her planned route of 23,000 NM exceeds the Earth circumference of 21,624 NM by 1400 NM.
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Old 10-02-2010, 16:09   #455
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R-K-J's route took him through an antipodeal pair simply because he started in England and then had to round the 3 southern capes.
Correct, he went though TWO antipodal pairs because those were almost unavoidable given the rules for the race that R-K-J was in:


Quote:
The Sunday Times Golden Globe will be awarded to the first non-stop single handed circumnavigator of the world. The yacht must start and finish at the same port in a northern latitude (north of 40 degrees N) and must round the three capes. (Good Hope, Leeuwin, and the Horn)
In either case, the circumnavigation must be completed without outside physical assistance and no fuel, food, water or equipment may be taken aboard after the start.

The £5,000 Sunday Times round the world race prize will be awarded to the single handed yachtsman who completes the fastest non-stop circumnavigation of the world departing after 1 June and before 31 October 1968, from a port on the British mainland and rounding the three capes.
I am sure that the Captain of Pink Lady wants to get credit for her progress rather than by diminishing the accomplishments those who preceded her.


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Old 10-02-2010, 16:15   #456
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I am sure that the Captain of Pink Lady wants to get credit for her progress rather than by diminishing the accomplishments those who preceded her.
Huh? I'm sure you're right, but I don't see anybody on this thread, let alone the Captain of the Pink Lady, who is "diminishing the accomplishments of those who preceded her"...

The discussion was never about who had been where, but about the rules and conventions of circumnavigation.
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Old 10-02-2010, 16:26   #457
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Huh? I'm sure you're right, but I don't see anybody on this thread, let alone the Captain of the Pink Lady, who is "diminishing the accomplishments of those who preceded her"...

The discussion was never about who had been where, but about the rules and conventions of circumnavigation.
By claiming that she is following supposed R-K-J rules her supporters are definitely equating her quest with that of R-K-J and as is often the case what her supporters do can reflect on her even if that is not right.

The discussion is about her (admirable) progress in her quest, not how her quest is following (unsubstantiated) R-K-J rules.



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Old 10-02-2010, 17:08   #458
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Just for kicks I recreated a map I know I've seen somewhere
<snip>
I'll see if I can do the same with Jessica's progress map just to see how close she gets
I've attached hers based on the map linked to from Jessica Watson&#39;s journey begins | Sunshine Coast News | Local News in Sunshine Coast | The Sunshine Coast Daily (I couldn't find her route on her site any more). Please let me know if I messed up somewhere in creating it ... it would certainly not be intentional.

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Old 10-02-2010, 23:19   #459
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I've attached hers based on the map linked to from Jessica Watson's journey begins | Sunshine Coast News | Local News in Sunshine Coast | The Sunshine Coast Daily (I couldn't find her route on her site any more). Please let me know if I messed up somewhere in creating it ... it would certainly not be intentional.

-Sven
I guess it could be seen that I'm nitpicking but that is not my intention. Jesse is my absolute heroine whose doubty attitude fascinates me. She is unique.

When I was her age the Dead Sea was still only slightly ill and just managing to find my way to school was a daily challenge.

Proposing to sail on my own from New Zealand to Australia, as a 16yr old? Yeah right. I would have been locked up in the loony bin.

Even now, many decades on, I doubt I could mirror her amazing equanimity in face of the hazards she has bested.

I am utterly disappointed when a new blog from her is not posted on a particular day.

And so, any suggestion that I wish to diminish what she is achieving is utterly incorrect.

What I am striving to understand....given she 'is' in fact attempting a record, whether it is officially recognised or not.....is where the boundary is.

For example, a well-coached three year old could sail a snow-yacht at a 10M radius around the North pole and claim to have passed through all Meridians.

A person could set off from say, Danskoya, do a 2/3rds run around the Arctic Circle at 60 degrees N. Take a quick hike down past Ireland to the Equator, then finish back at Danskoya and claim a solo-navigation.

So, you see. I'm not nitpicking, I just want to know what the actual rules are.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:25   #460
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. . . What I am striving to understand....given she 'is' in fact attempting a record, whether it is officially recognised or not.....is where the boundary is. . . . . . So, you see. I'm not nitpicking, I just want to know what the actual rules are.
The quest for the "actual rules" is not possible as there are no rules in an unsanctioned adventure. From all the above posts it becomes obvious that in RTW quests there are more than a few different sets of "rules." It is logical to assume that J.W. and her team will pick the most advantageous set of rules for her situation and try to abide by them to add a little more depth to her quest. Verification is not even a factor as her satellite communication links continuously verify where she actually is and has been. As to her following or not following anybody's rules in no way diminishes the importance of what she is doing as a young adult.
- - Way, way back in an earlier version of this thread it was heavily discussed whether somebody her age should be doing such things. There is a never ending discussion of when a person is "old enough". I give three cheers and a rah, rah to J.W. and others who are proving that age is not the real determinant but instead your spirit and determination and experience that count most.
- - Her progress and experiences so far has shown she has the spirit and determination without a doubt, it is only successfully completing her quest that will put down the questions about experience. The sheer number of days out there in the oceans so far shows that young people have at least - if not more - guts than most of us older folks and given a sound ship and fair winds her future horizons are unlimited in whatever endeavors follow this one.
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Old 11-02-2010, 08:47   #461
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Jessica has laid out the "rules" of her circumnavigation on her website...

Quote:
My goal is to sail solo around the world non-stop, unassisted. I have chosen a route that is a traditionally recognised path and distance for ‘around the world sailors’. As this is a Southern Hemisphere voyage the significant landmarks are the southern tips of the American and African continents, as well as some of the most challenging oceans a sailor will ever face. The entire journey is a mix of amazing experience and unique challenges.


There are a few key targets I must achieve to qualify for around the world status. The approximate distance is 23,000 nautical miles (about 38,000 kilometres). I must depart and arrive from the same port, cross all lines of longitude, cross the equator entering into the Northern Hemisphere at least once and round the southern landmarks of South America and South Africa.
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Old 11-02-2010, 13:24   #462
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Here is the corrected one. I sure hope I didn't mess up again in my rush !




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Sorry, but you still don't have it. The northbound path at about 30°W would have its antipodal path at 150°E which is roughly the East coast of Australia, not the middle of the Pacific. Third time's the charm...
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Old 11-02-2010, 13:43   #463
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So, you see. I'm not nitpicking, I just want to know what the actual rules are.
Hi dpex.

For an independent verification of the acceptability of Jessica's route, bypassing all this nonsense about "whose circumnavigation is bigger than whose", just follow the link on post 430 to the WSSRC rules.

The WSSRC are the official sanctioning body for world sailing records, and their definition of circumnavigation is used by those currently seeking to set circumnavigation records recognised by WSSRC. Although Jessica won't be recognised by them, she is still following their conventions, so any arguments as to whether hers will be a "real" or "fair" circumnavigation should be directed at WSSRC and at those others who have also followed their rules and set records.
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Old 11-02-2010, 13:58   #464
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Hi dpex.

For an independent verification of the acceptability of Jessica's route, bypassing all this nonsense about "whose circumnavigation is bigger than whose", just follow the link on post 430 to the WSSRC rules.

The WSSRC are the official sanctioning body for world sailing records, and their definition of circumnavigation is used by those currently seeking to set circumnavigation records recognised by WSSRC. Although Jessica won't be recognised by them, she is still following their conventions, so any arguments as to whether hers will be a "real" or "fair" circumnavigation should be directed at WSSRC and at those others who have also followed their rules and set records.

Went to the wssrc site. That's cleared matters up handsomely. Thank you for that.
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Old 11-02-2010, 15:18   #465
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Re. Jessica's intentions, she has said on at least two occasions that the record is just an excuse and a way to get sponsorship.

Going Solo

What she really wants is to have a grand adventure sailing around the world as a 16 year old, and have a lot of people following her story.

And is she ever doing that!! In her words, "Wow"
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