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Old 21-12-2013, 18:54   #31
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Re: Interesting Graphics

I think that many USAsians confuse weather with climate.

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The report, released by the National Climate Data Center, a branch of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, found that last month marked the 37th consecutive November with an average global temperature above the 20th-century average. It was also the 345th consecutive month with an average temperature higher than the 20th- century average.
Oh, oh, ohhhh...
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Old 21-12-2013, 19:44   #32
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Notice the officials are no longer crying about global warming but about climate change, why??? It's because the climate has not warmed over most of the last 20 years and has actually cooled ever so slightly.
Roverhi ... where did you get this idea from?

Data from agencies like NASA GISS show something very different.



Global mean land-ocean temperature change from 18802012, relative to the 19511980 mean. The black line is the annual mean and the red line is the 5-year running mean. The green bars show uncertainty estimates. Source: NASA GISS.
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Old 21-12-2013, 19:50   #33
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Oh, oh...
Tell that to 75 thousand frozen cattle.
I'm sure they'd be glad to hear it.

cattle frozen to death - Bing

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Old 21-12-2013, 22:19   #34
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Tell that to 75 thousand frozen cattle.
I'm sure they'd be glad to hear it.
There ya go. Weather confused with climate...
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Old 21-12-2013, 22:30   #35
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
There ya go. Weather confused with climate...
But it never happened before -----------------

Must be climate change.
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Old 22-12-2013, 00:41   #36
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Re: Interesting Graphics

First, tell me if there is any research that supports all the ice melting? I mean, has this ever happened or supported by any research, studies or science?

Second, 2.5% of all the water in the world is fresh water. Of that, about 68.7% is in the form of glaciers and ice caps so this is about 1.7% of all the fresh water on the planet. [ref. http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/earthwherewater.html]

Taking into account that the world's oceans are an average of 4267 meters deep [ref. [ref. http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/oceandepth.html], all the 1.7% of ice melting would result in an average depth of 4340 meters or about 73 feet, not 216 feet. So, right away I can see there's been some creative math in the National Geographic website.

The NG website also states that the "entire Atlantic seaboard would vanish" but unless they rename the ocean on the east coast of the U.S. I think it would still be the Atlantic seaboard. It will have moved; just not as much as they say.

It also says that it may take 5000 years before this happens at the rate we are putting CO2 into the atmosphere. Doesn't anybody find this even a teensy bit delusional? I'm not fanatical about either side of the argument but I favor facts over probabilities and government funded research (that's a whole other argument).

The other prediction is that "...California, San Francisco's hills would become a cluster of islands and the Central Valley a giant bay" I'm hearing some pretty cool sailing/cruising grounds. Put this one in the plus column.

It also makes a natural passage from the Caribbean to the Pacific so another fee that cruisers can avoid. Another plus.

People... we could all do better with the planet we have so I'm all in favor of doing things in a more ecological manner. Also, I can say unequivocally that my wife support less greenhouse gas emissions. Specifically, male flatulence.
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Old 22-12-2013, 00:54   #37
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Re: Interesting Graphics

I think the concensus is that there is change occurring, deniers intrigue me, I accept it, Other than being a minimalist and running my machinery in the most efficient way. I cannot impose my opinions on others. Any reduction we voluntary do, makes a difference of only a few years. We do not have the political system that could solve this problem, as out system requires growth. Still occasionally I bleat about loss of amenity, the increasing traffic, and at sea its getting hard to catch a fish. I disagree with coops and I agree at the same time, enjoy it while you can.
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Old 22-12-2013, 00:55   #38
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Re: Interesting Graphics

It's pretty simple. The climate reacts to forces acting upon it and humans are now a dominate force. Over the past 150 years greenhouse gas levels have increased 40 percent.

May 2013 - NASA: "The global concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere the primary driver of recent climate change has reached 400 parts per million (ppm) for the first time in recorded history, according to data from the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii."

Even if we assume human-driven climate change is just liberal scaremongering, the slight chance that it is real really ought to be enough to at least try to do something about it.

As the world continues to develop, it's absolutely imperative that we be better role models for a developing world that looks to us for the lifestyle they want to live. It just takes a little re-prioritization and perhaps the swallowing of a little pride.
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Old 22-12-2013, 01:23   #39
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Originally Posted by kmason View Post
First, tell me if there is any research that supports all the ice melting? I mean, has this ever happened or supported by any research, studies or science?

Second, 2.5% of all the water in the world is fresh water. Of that, about 68.7% is in the form of glaciers and ice caps so this is about 1.7% of all the fresh water on the planet. [ref. http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/earthwherewater.html]

Taking into account that the world's oceans are an average of 4267 meters deep [ref. [ref. http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/oceandepth.html], all the 1.7% of ice melting would result in an average depth of 4340 meters or about 73 feet, not 216 feet. So, right away I can see there's been some creative math in the National Geographic website.
I dont have a good answer, but factors such as thermal expansion also play a significant role.

Sea level rise is only one piece of the puzzle though. Other things like desertification and increasing ocean temperatures seem like more salient concerns. Someone else mentioned it before, too, but the biggest concern to mariners might be the intensification of storms and more irregular wind patterns and currents.
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Old 22-12-2013, 01:34   #40
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Re: Interesting Graphics

Re KMason, I just did a rough calculation on back of envelop, just on ocean temperature alone every 1 deg C temp rise equates to (If average depth is truly 4340meters @ .0006 cubic expansion, depth increase per degC = 2.6m. I did a caculation of Volume of ice in Antarctic, I believe its roughly 3000m deep. Greenland guess at 2000m. The ice sheet near Glacier bay, no idea. I also got a impressive figure, do you own maths. The point is society will break down long before these events are likely to happen. If you reckon, you will get some nice sailing done in a future world, not bloody likely, you need the infrastructure of a functioning world to have a chance.
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Old 22-12-2013, 01:40   #41
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Re: Interesting Graphics

In all of this, why have the "deniers', and that seems to be an inaccurate and demeaning term to somebody who does not believe what you believe, never started a thread about the Non climate change? Could it be that they have more exciting and fun things to do with their time?

Coops.
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Old 22-12-2013, 03:15   #42
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Originally Posted by kmason View Post
Taking into account that the world's oceans are an average of 4267 meters deep [ref. [ref. http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/oceandepth.html], all the 1.7% of ice melting would result in an average depth of 4340 meters or about 73 feet, not 216 feet. So, right away I can see there's been some creative math in the National Geographic website.
I am not sure how you (or NG arrived at their figures) but I dont think it is a simple matter of taking averages and making estimates.
For example a significant proportion of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets are already below sea level therefore will not contribute to sea level rise. You need to calculate the volume of ice above sea level as a proportion of existing volume of ocean water and then add this to the average depth.

Then as someone has already mentioned thermal expansion of the surface waters has also to be taken into account.

One of the other unknowns is just how much CO2 is dissolving in the oceans, but the problem there is not temperature increase but acidification, which then releases more CO2 as coral reefs dissolve ....... and so it goes on as a positive feedback loop.


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People... we could all do better with the planet we have so I'm all in favor of doing things in a more ecological manner. Also, I can say unequivocally that my wife support less greenhouse gas emissions. Specifically, male flatulence.
This is more true than you may think as methane production by cattle farming is a significant contributor to greenhouse gases.
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Old 22-12-2013, 05:37   #43
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
"

The USA is a small pocket then?

Coops.
Actually it was Coops.

Temps in other regions ( Siberia) were much higher than normal and, on average, temps were up.

If you are interested I can point you to a meteorological conference site where the atmospheric circulation patterns, and there changes, are described.
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Old 22-12-2013, 07:30   #44
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Re: Interesting Graphics

Coops said:
Quote:
In all of this, why have the "deniers', and that seems to be an inaccurate and demeaning term to somebody who does not believe what you believe, never started a thread about the Non climate change? Could it be that they have more exciting and fun things to do with their time?
You are right the word deniers should not be used. I have used it and I apologize. I guess I use it in response to being called a lefty tree hugger. Although I am a Liberal (notice big L) and I think I even may have hugged a tree, although I have no idea why I did that.

But why in the world would anyone start a thread on non-climate change when the climate is changing, the earth is warming, we humans are over populating, we have over fished the oceans, we have cut down the forests and polluted the air, soil and water.

For those who think that a mere 73 ft. is not going to cause massive change in our societies, re-think that situation. Yes, it may take a long time for it to reach that level but it is not going to take long before there is massive upheaval in the world. Maybe you could listen to this Radio Series | Gwynne Dyer about climate wars.
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Old 22-12-2013, 07:30   #45
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This is more true than you may think as methane production by cattle farming is a significant contributor to greenhouse gases.
Ya think cattle are bad...think of all those insects in the Amazon rain forest chomping away on trees and shrubs. The single largest contributor to greenhouse gasses in South America is probably termite farts. Something should be done!!!
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