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Old 20-12-2013, 21:35   #16
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Originally Posted by Miniyot View Post
I noticed a few key words....
IF....
MIGHT (may).....
5,000 years...
Don't let a few IF's & MIGHT's or 5,000 years put you off believing.
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Old 21-12-2013, 02:11   #17
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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All true, but this time it's happening because we have interfered with the planet so much. And it's happening faster. It's not in any way comparable

Dave .
This is the very point sceptics seem to miss.

Also human civilisation is so much more complex this time so that the impact of climate change is going to be so much greater.
We can't just pick up New York, London, Bangkok or Shanghai and move to higher ground. Established agricultural areas will shift threatening food security. The billions of people that live in the great deltas will have to move to new areas and all this WILL happen in the space of just one or two generations.
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Old 21-12-2013, 02:30   #18
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Re: Interesting Graphics

Another climate change thread suggesting that we are all doomed. What a surprise. Now, should I go "Oh no, I best stop doing all that I am doing now and worry about the future, secure in the knowledge that most of the billions of inhabitants on the planet will not give a tinker's cuss about it at all, or, carry on doing what I do now and enjoy myself until I die, which I surely will do.

I am 64, have heard about the birds falling off the trees because of carbon monoxide poisoning since 1964 in the UK. Have not heard of one doing so yet and there seems to be a lot of birds still around. So, if I had stopped driving my car then it would have helped nothing or nobody and only hurt myself.

I see so many posts on here with a very political and supposed environmental armageddon slant that I wonder if some of the posters ever get any pleasure out of life if they are not pushing their own issues. I get up in the morning and look forward to the day in front of me. I do not get up and worry if me being alive today is hurting the planet, because if I did, and decided that I should suicide and help it, somebody else would take my place and make the numbers back up.

Enjoy the life that you have NOW.

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Old 21-12-2013, 02:35   #19
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Re: Interesting Graphics

Coops ... I am 64 so like you I am not worried for myself. I will not be around to care. But I do worry about the sort of world my grandkids will be living in.
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Old 21-12-2013, 04:55   #20
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Well...I'm happy. I have beach front property now.
Yeah, and the guys in front of us will have to remove their house as there is no camping on the beach.
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Old 21-12-2013, 13:21   #21
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
All true, but this time it's happening because we have interfered with the planet so much. And it's happening faster. It's not in any way comparable

Dave .

You clearly ignored the last sentence in my post.

Here is another related 'factoid'.

Glacier Bay, 200 years ago was choked with ice. It was thousands of feet high at the bay entrance and spanned the entire 30 or so miles. 100 years ago or so, Darwin perched on a mountain top 30 miles up the now open bay. Owing to the cornucopia shapped bay and the ice depth, this loss represented about 80 % of the bay's total ice. In the subsequent 100 years (to the present) another 30 miles of ice has gone and the glacier faces have receded to about the bay water's edge. This represented about 15 % of the original toal. The main loss of ice happened before any industrial environmental change. The point is that WE have nothing to do with it. It has been receding without our assistance for 12,000 years. We happen to be the humans present to witness the inevietable melting of the last ice age.

The major Ice loss in North America was from a meteor impact near Chicago after which nearly all NA ice was gone. Remnants from this impact are found embedded in one side of the tusks of mamoths and trees all over the east as far south as Georgia. Piles of swarth all point at the event. Who are you going to blame? Come-on, you know you need to blame soemone.

You will find no stronger or more dedicated a supporter of stewardship and responsible use of our resources but accept that we are tiny flyspecks spitting in this wind that has been blowing for billions of years. Whatever we do, the last thing should be abdicating to the government for a plan. They have proven themselves incapable of running anything. If you think any government can stop sunspots, asteroids, techtonic movement, volcanos and the inexorable change well documented in our planet's past then you must consider them Gods.

I work in the wind energy business and I hat to have to inform that it is all a political sham for the lefty tree huggers & media. It exists only due to massive subsidies and taxk rebates. The true cost of wind power is many times the numbers profered for public consumption. The cost of regular maintenance alone is 3X the cost of fossil fuel generation. The projected life 20 - 30 years for a tower is 10X the real life. Mean time to failure of the giant speed-up gear box is 6 to 18 months and its replacement is 1,000,000. Do the simple math. Tower produces 1/4 of its nameplate on average at a reducer replacement cost of 1 million. Lets add the real cost of the tower without subsidies on the front end. 2.5 million/tower. Consider that these already imposible costs are then jacked up 3X for installation over water. NOW, lets calculate how much energy was consumed smelting the iron and all other parts of the production of the tower. We are getting close to the metric that the tower consumes more energy than it can ever harvest net in its entire life span. Add in the energy factors for a marine installation and the entire enterprise can not pass muster with any sane person.
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Old 21-12-2013, 14:08   #22
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Re: Interesting Graphics

You are describing the "levelised cost" of producing electricity by wind power. This includes all the costs from design to decommission especially the ongoing operations and and maintenance costs.
There is a very good article in Wikipedia which discusses this very issue
See
Cost of electricity by source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you will see land based wind power is cheaper than conventional coal power station.

What levelised costs does not include is environmental costs associated with climate change. If these are included then electricity generated by fossil fuels is incalculably more expensive.
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Old 21-12-2013, 14:35   #23
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Re: Interesting Graphics

Quote:
I work in the wind energy business and I hat to have to inform that it is all a political sham for the lefty tree huggers & media. It exists only due to massive subsidies and taxk rebates. The true cost of wind power is many times the numbers profered for public consumption. The cost of regular maintenance alone is 3X the cost of fossil fuel generation. The projected life 20 - 30 years for a tower is 10X the real life. Mean time to failure of the giant speed-up gear box is 6 to 18 months and its replacement is 1,000,000. Do the simple math. Tower produces 1/4 of its nameplate on average at a reducer replacement cost of 1 million. Lets add the real cost of the tower without subsidies on the front end. 2.5 million/tower.
Do you refuse to work in such an immoral endeavor, notify your potential customers that they are being foolish and you will not install wind energy systems on moral and ethical grounds?
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Old 21-12-2013, 14:36   #24
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Another climate change thread suggesting that we are all doomed. What a surprise. Now, should I go "Oh no, I best stop doing all that I am doing now and worry about the future, secure in the knowledge that most of the billions of inhabitants on the planet will not give a tinker's cuss about it at all, or, carry on doing what I do now and enjoy myself until I die, which I surely will do.
Go back to sleep Coops, its alright now...
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Old 21-12-2013, 14:54   #25
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Re: Interesting Graphics

I'm no denier, quite the opposite.

But I see no point in trying to convince deniers. I wish it were not so, but that is the way it is.

I do wish deniers would try to stop convincing ME. that too seems a futile desire.

It would be nice if there was a place we could discuss these issues here without ridicule.

I do have another site, private by invite only, where such matters are accepted, but it is not a boating site.

If you are really interested then PM me and I'll extend an invite.
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Old 21-12-2013, 15:33   #26
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Go back to sleep Coops, its alright now...
Thank you, I knew that it would be.

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Old 21-12-2013, 17:27   #27
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Re: Interesting Graphics

If the climate change is man made, we can't do anything about it without going back to a stone age culture and genocide that would make even Adolph, Joseph, and Mao turn in their graves in envy. Notice the officials are no longer crying about global warming but about climate change, why??? It's because the climate has not warmed over most of the last 20 years and has actually cooled ever so slightly. Every one of the doom sayers climate models are not modeling what is actually happening and have failed to predict what they have been crying about. Talk about hedging your bets, if global warming doesn't work, hell, we'll create a guaranteed winner in Global Climate Change. Guess what the Climate is constantly doing every minute of every day of every year of every century, it's changing. No matter what happens, chicken little is right.

The glaciers in Glacier Bay grew in response to the mini Ice Age of the mid 20th century. Before that, they had receded during the medieval warming period. If you want to see something really really scary, look at what happens if we get serious global cooling. Most of North America, Europe and Northern Asia under 1,000s of feet of ice wouldn't bode well for social stability.
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Old 21-12-2013, 17:48   #28
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Re: Interesting Graphics

roverhi said:
Quote:
Notice the officials are no longer crying about global warming but about climate change, why??? It's because the climate has not warmed over most of the last 20 years and has actually cooled ever so slightly.
DeepFrz said: OH...

November 2013 Warmest Month On Record? Average Global Temperature Was
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Old 21-12-2013, 18:06   #29
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Re: Interesting Graphics

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Although there were pockets of chilly weather across the globe, considering the planet as a whole, global temperatures continue to climb. According to a report from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration released Dec. 12, regional extremes continued this year over much of Eurasia and Alaska.
Oh, oh...
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Old 21-12-2013, 18:10   #30
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Re: Interesting Graphics

"For those of us in the U.S., the news that November was Earth’s warmest month on record may come as a surprise, given that November was actually a relatively cold month for Americans. Temperatures across the country fell below the 20th-century average.

“That shouldn’t be a surprise for the Americans who braved a chilly Thanksgiving weekend, or for the Midwesterners who suffered through biting cold and heavy snow earlier this month,” Time noted. “And if the cold weather continues … something even more unusual could happen: for the first time in 20 years, the U.S. may have more daily record lows over the course of a calendar year than daily record highs.”

The USA is a small pocket then?

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