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Old 02-05-2010, 15:31   #31
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Well put, JimD
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Old 02-05-2010, 15:57   #32
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Yep, good post JimD

I was thinking about the actual impact. From what I understand this stuff isn't exactly poison but it will sufficate the life. Do you all think the Dolphins will leave the area? the Sharks? our pilot whales? can they survivr in that gunk? I was just trying to figure out exactly who was going to die over this, we know the oysters, seabirds, the sea grass/fauna, a whole eco system along the coast but will the larger sea animals get the drift and head for cleaner waters? It is spring and we get a bunch of migrating birds and butterflies from Mexico cross the gulf into the states, this will affect them too, they are migrating to a place with no food.
Below is a picture of who I like to call "the Boys" , actually this picture was taken in the Gulf just southeast of the spill area.
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Old 02-05-2010, 16:35   #33
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gulf disaster

I spend alot of time in the South though my home port is far away. I love NOLA and South Mississippi and Alabama. The aspects of the culture that are not political are kind and carefree. The politics? Not so much. Conservatism as practiced in these places is the essence of evil. Those who benefit from the oil including all of us who use it are going to have to pay...Those who use it and benefit from the business have traditionaly skated. They will continue to do so as a result of the circular logic of social conservatism... It will require a great deal of pain indeed to change that.
I'm gonna get a shrimp po'boy while I can.

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Old 02-05-2010, 16:42   #34
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It may not be poison like arsenic or cyanide but it is poisonous enough. I have seen big oil spills before and all the fish died or left. Birds that get any on them die. It is a huge disaster. The thing that is new and way worse about this spill is that the surrounding coastline is in large part swamp and marshland. No telling when, if ever, it will flush out if it gets in there. Still worse is that these areas are major breeding grounds for important species like shrimp and many sea and coastal birds.
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Old 02-05-2010, 19:23   #35
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the ACTUAL impact will kill the lives of everyone in the fishing industry among the other industries in this area--may kill new orleans when the pumps fail from having to pump oil instead of water--think about the real human loss of livelihood and homes--critters are not as important as human lives and families--they are cool and they are irreplaceable but the real and actual impact will be the death of the entire area -- not just fishies and cute burdeez...lets face reality here ---there is much more to this area than merely cutsie animalia and burdeez and such. there are humans trying to make a living after being bitch slapped by hurricanes and there are families trying to feed the children and make a living. please face the REAL impact of the death of that treasured area. the repair , if ever accomplished, will take forever plus a few lifetimes. the damage is totally irreparable.
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Old 02-05-2010, 19:29   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim D View Post
Transocean owned and operated this rig. BP hired them to do that. BP is now responsible for the clean up.

I do not believe it is accurate to say that this well did not have blow out preventers(BOPs). The rig was routinely inspected by authorities, and the drilling complied with regulatory requirements. Everything that has been written and otherwise reported indicates the BOP stack was in place, but that it failed to operate as planned and expected.

The consumption for crude oil is completely driven by the consumption of the products made from it. David M is quite right. The oil companies do not make us or anyone else use the products made from crude oil. "We" are the ones that complain mightily if there is a line at a gas pump, or if the price goes up $0.25 a gallon. People want more oil supply, not less - that is simply undeniable.

This Gulf of Mexico event is a disaster of great proportion on many fronts. Some damage to the environment and wildlife is inevitable. Lives have been lost. The aftermath will include reduced drilling, and new regulations, and the price of the oil can only go up. And it gives the environmentalists new and powerful ammunition to fight measures aimed at increased supplies of domestic oil and gas.

It is a very sad event. As was the collapse of a coal mine in W Virginia earlier in the month that took 25 or more lives. We would be discussing that here as well, except it didn't effect bird or fish life; it didn't effect the Katrina coast; it didn't get anyone's hull dirty; and the coal mine wasn't owned or operated by BP, or another international oil major. Nonetheless, the only reason that coal was being mined, and thus those lives were lost, is that we do actually expect the lights to come on, and the A/C to work when we flip the switch. We demand electricity, and we get very upset when it goes out.


~
read the words of the bp veep and others who were responsible for not having installed the remote capping mechanisms--lol--is hilarious and sickening that they can be so crass and indifferent about safety measures--CALLING THEM "UNNECESSARY " AND "IMPEDENCES TO PROFIT AND PRODUCTION" LOL---GO FIGGER......
and the collapse of the coal mine hasnt been compared to an atomic bomb blast in its destructive capacity, as has this disaster--get a grip on reality--this is killing an entire section of our nation --something a civil war and numerous hurricanes and other small nuisances were unable to do over the few years this nation has been in existence......
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Old 02-05-2010, 20:21   #37
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zeehag - could you post a link to story you are quoting from?

I did find this quote on the wiki article -

Quote:
The BP well did not have any remote-control or acoustically-activated shut-off switch for use in case of an emergency such as the rig sinking. The countries of Norway and Brazil require them on all offshore rigs, but oil companies persuaded U.S. regulators that such backup devices were unnecessary
which certainly sounds like the oil companies were wrong, and the regulators let them get away with it.
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Old 02-05-2010, 20:30   #38
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Originally Posted by nettlesbe View Post
zeehag - could you post a link to story you are quoting from?

I did find this quote on the wiki article -



which certainly sounds like the oil companies were wrong, and the regulators let them get away with it.
Reading on the oil drilling discussion forum.. the folks who know this business.... say these devices would have made no difference in this case.
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Old 02-05-2010, 20:37   #39
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incomplete research, selective quoting

I hope you'll go back and read the referenced source of that Wiki statement, Nestlebe. There you'll find:

U.S. regulators don't mandate use of the remote-control device on offshore rigs, ... The efficacy of the devices is unclear. Major offshore oil-well blowouts are rare, and it remained unclear Wednesday evening whether acoustic switches have ever been put to the test in a real-world accident. When wells do surge out of control, the primary shut-off systems almost always work. Remote control systems such as the acoustic switch, which have been tested in simulations, are intended as a last resort.

The offshore business is very technical. I certainly don't understand all of it.
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Old 02-05-2010, 20:44   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim D View Post
I hope you'll go back and read the referenced source of that Wiki statement, Nestlebe. There you'll find:

U.S. regulators don't mandate use of the remote-control device on offshore rigs, ... The efficacy of the devices is unclear. Major offshore oil-well blowouts are rare, and it remained unclear Wednesday evening whether acoustic switches have ever been put to the test in a real-world accident. When wells do surge out of control, the primary shut-off systems almost always work. Remote control systems such as the acoustic switch, which have been tested in simulations, are intended as a last resort.

The offshore business is very technical. I certainly don't understand all of it.
It's probably too early for anyone to say, with any degree of certainty, what caused this tragedy, what short-cuts may have exacerbated the outcome, or who's to blame, but this much is certain . . . if you don't install acoustic switches, they will fail to stop the uncontrolled flow of crude every time.

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Old 02-05-2010, 21:01   #41
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I certainly don't understand all of it either. And I have a hard time believing our regulations would allow unsafe operations just to save $.

But, in the quote you referenced (below) the uncertainty expressed, and possibility that other systems might have made a difference will give plenty of ammunition to those who believe all oil corporations are inherently evil.

And in hindsight, I'll bet the BP folks would rather spend the $ on the devices even if they didn't help, rather than taking the PR hit.

Quote:
the primary shut-off systems almost always work. Remote control systems such as the acoustic switch, which have been tested in simulations, are intended as a last resort.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:57   #42
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Wow, this has got silly. I thought you lot just had an election! Pay regard to what the Good Old USA is doing to the Atmosphere before you blame BP, they were only trying to extract cheap petrol for your Gas Guzzlers, and it has to be cheap because that's what YOU want. The cars and trucks, SUV's and 4x4's are a little less damaging than the COAL BURNING power stations that drive your mega watts of Air Conditioning so you don't feel too warm.
Think a bit more about your vote next time around, the Americans who still can't get basic Health Care, the Environment you are so keen to shout about but do nothing to protect.
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:03   #43
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You know there is a mile high column of water that can not keep that oil in the well. Think of what kind of pressure is having to be dealt with, plus having to deal with it a mile below the surface. Could any preventer have worked, maybe not. Did you know over in the middle east the average production cost is like 3 or 4 dollars a barrel.
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:55   #44
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Quote:
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If you guys don't like the black ooze why dont you just get a government that will develop alternate energies?



At least then you could allow some ME countries descent back into dustbowls where they belong.
I'm all for that, and in total agreement. Two years ago, I converted a 1974 VW Beetle to battery-electric drive. I put over 10,000 gasoline-free miles on that car. Highway speed capable, drove it to/from work every day.

Want to know what happened to it?

I lived in a townhouse community and my neighbors didn't like the (small) charging cord laying across the sidewalk. The homeowner's association classified my car as an "electric power tool" that was not allowed to be left plugged in. With no way to charge it, I was forced to sell it to prevent the batteries from idling to death.

No good deed goes unpunished.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:27   #45
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I lived in a townhouse community and my neighbors didn't like the (small) charging cord laying across the sidewalk.
An oil company exec was living in your street!

Yes, that sort of stupidity sux.

As we sail around the world there are basically 3 types of ships: Container ships, Oil tankers and all the rest. We use one hell of a lot of oil.

But our 'lil boat can sail round the world on just a splash of diesel and solar panels doing most of the work
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