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Old 09-09-2016, 07:33   #46
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

here is a suggestion... perhaps, once th edamages have finally been determined, a group of folks with damaged boats get together to hire a surveyor to determine exact damage done to all of th eaffected boats. kjels christian comes to mind, out of san diego. fees woul dbe a lot better if done as a group rather than individually.

here in mexico, the workers work as hard as possible to keep the wallet happy. you are the wallet. there is much responsibility and accountability.
as this was a disaster involving hundreds of potential victims, the progress will seem slow, as only one individual has this ultimate responsibility of care of your precious boats. yes precious.
after storms in any part pf mexico, as seen by patricia just last year, and in a locale a little less remote from infrastructure than is guaymas, it takes approximately a month to sort the communications failures and replace that infrastructure and upgrade so it is usable. there will be constant and chronic outages despite repairs. many of the connection fails may not be found before the month of repairs is completed. oops but remember we are not in usa, where all is immediate and pressingly completed.
no one wishes to lose business due to incorrectness or mistakes, so it takes a bit of time.
please folks who have not heard, please be patient. they are truly working as hard as they can to sort this mess out.
do whateveryou do to distract yourself from the issues in mexico. nothing can be done until you hear from your marina manager. the more load on the communications system, the more fail it will become. please be patient so the communications systems remain somewhat functional.
after patricia we had comms for a couple of days then total fail. then 2 weeks we had lights and water--and comm fail. so many incoming calls and work for the system that was still unrepaired made all calls in and out fail. i got lucky and was able to contact my momma and family. via my fones banda ancha system which continuusly failed along with wifi, i was able to get a message to others to relay. if you can manage a relay system with others involved in this disaster, please do so.
it can take as long as a couple of weeks to reliably communicate.
i bet that most of you will hear from your respective marina managers within these 2 weeks. please relax and breathe., you are insured. yeah i know the boat is love of your life. however, it is not human and it is replaceable.

ps--in a choice between waiting and having teeth pulled--i go for the teeth, thankyou... waiting soo sucks.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:43   #47
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

[QUOTE=SV THIRD DAY;2208710]Tom Brown of La Paz Cruisers Supply/Yacht Management reports that none of the Boat that were in Marina Palmira suffered hurricane damage despite the 80kts of wind. Just like in Oldie, the boats that were in a safe marina were fine. A safe Marina in La Paz would be my best hurricane option if I didn't want to make the Bay of Los Angeles run again, based on data. Oldie and now Newton and no damage to boats in safe Marina's in La Paz...that's good past history data, despite the increase costs over a dirt lot in Guymas.

I thought there had been damage to boats and berths at Marina De La Paz, from Odile, so I looked it up and found this on Noonsite...


La Paz
In excess of 20 boats were reportedly either sunk or driven onto the Magote, the peninsula that defines La Paz harbor. The marinas and boats in the marinas apparently did quite well, notably Marina de La Paz, which suffered major damage to itself and berthed boats during the last big hurricane.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:35   #48
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Tom Brown of La Paz Cruisers Supply/Yacht Management reports that none of the Boat that were in Marina Palmira suffered hurricane damage despite the 80kts of wind. Just like in Oldie, the boats that were in a safe marina were fine. A safe Marina in La Paz would be my best hurricane option if I didn't want to make the Bay of Los Angeles run again, based on data. Oldie and now Newton and no damage to boats in safe Marina's in La Paz...that's good past history data, despite the increase costs over a dirt lot in Guymas.
I thought there had been damage to boats and berths at Marina De La Paz, from Odile, so I looked it up and found this on Noonsite...


La Paz
In excess of 20 boats were reportedly either sunk or driven onto the Magote, the peninsula that defines La Paz harbor. The marinas and boats in the marinas apparently did quite well, notably Marina de La Paz, which suffered major damage to itself and berthed boats during the last big hurricane.
There appears to be a misunderstanding of the facts as expressed by our friend Celestialsailor, so lets review:

First, no boats were sunk or lost or sustained major damage during Oldie from Marina de La Paz. Your quoted sentence was talking about the last big hurricane (Prior to Oldie) which totally destroyed the marina. Marina de la Paz was completely rebuilt at that time including the addition of surge barriers, which proved their value during Oldie, keeping everyone in the marina safe.

Second, the boats that were damaged in La Paz during Oldie were at anchor...in other words, they were bat **** crazy for staying at anchor. So your reporting of 20 boats sinking were not from a Marina, as you seem to misunderstood the quoted sentence from Noonsite.

Third and most importantly, I would ever call Marina de La Paz a "safe marina" during a hurricane. The owners of the Marina, have a contract with other local marina's to get boats out of Marina de La Paz and into the more "Safe Marinas", as they did during Oldie.

This is how cruise Rumors and factual inaccuracies get started, so I needed to correct the record. No Boats sustained major damage in the Marina's in La Paz during either Oldie (a Cat 4 hurricane) or most recently during hurricane Newton. So we have a safe track record of boat that were in Safe Marina in La Paz. Those two data points are valuable to consider when planning your Sea of Cortez summers for those that don't want to summer over in the BLA area.
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:02   #49
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

[QUOTE=SV THIRD DAY;2209425]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post

Reading Comprehension Amigo...lets review shall we:

First, no boats were sunk or lost or sustained major damage during Oldie from Marina de La Paz. The article was talking about the last big hurricane (Prior to Oldie) which totally destroyed the marina.

Second, the boats that were damaged in La Paz during Oldie were at anchor...in other words, they were bat **** crazy for staying at anchor.

Third and most importantly, no one that I know would ever call Marina de La Paz a "safe marina" during a hurricane, not even the owners of the Marina, who have a contract with other local marina's to get boats out of Marina de La Paz and into the more "Safe Marinas".
Reading comprehension?...
Yes, you said safe Marinas in La Paz. Marina De La Paz is in "La Paz". Perhaps it would have been more clear if you had followed up your statement with Marina De La Paz being the exception. I'm not a mind reader Rich.
The article was not about the hurrican prior to Odile. Please slow down and read carefully...
You are here: Home / Countries / Mexico / Mexico West Coast: Extensive Damage wreaked by Hurricane Odile

Mexico West Coast: Extensive Damage wreaked by Hurricane Odile

By Latitude '38 — last modified Sep 19, 2014 12:33 PM

This special report by Latitude 38 details the effect this Hurricane has had in Baja California, Mexico, a popular haven for cruising boats.

Published: 2014-09-17 00:00:00
Topics: Weather
Countries: Mexico



With most communication out within Baja, it's difficult to get an accurate picture of the destruction caused by Hurricane Odile, but the following should give a general idea.
La Paz
In excess of 20 boats were reportedly either sunk or driven onto the Magote, the peninsula that defines La Paz harbor. The marinas and boats in the marinas apparently did quite well, notably Marina de La Paz, which suffered major damage to itself and berthed boats during the last big hurricane.
Currently, four cruisers from boats anchored out at La Paz are missing and the Navy are involved in the search. La Paz is a tight cruising community, so everyone is praying for the four missing friends.
Based on Marina De La Paz's history, I would agree, it's not that safe, especially if you are closer to the sea wall.
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:17   #50
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
The article was not about the hurrican prior to Odile. Please slow down and read carefully...

You are here: Home / Countries / Mexico / Mexico West Coast: Extensive Damage wreaked by Hurricane Odile

Mexico West Coast: Extensive Damage wreaked by Hurricane Odile

By Latitude '38 — last modified Sep 19, 2014 12:33 PM

This special report by Latitude 38 details the effect this Hurricane has had in Baja California, Mexico, a popular haven for cruising boats.

Published: 2014-09-17 00:00:00

With most communication out within Baja, it's difficult to get an accurate picture of the destruction caused by Hurricane Odile, but the following should give a general idea.

La Paz
In excess of 20 boats were reportedly either sunk or driven onto the Magote, the peninsula that defines La Paz harbor. The marinas and boats in the marinas apparently did quite well, notably Marina de La Paz, which suffered major damage to itself and berthed boats during the last big hurricane.
To help you a bit, I bolded the part of the story that first said boats during Oldie that were in Marina's did well and then the next part of the sentance is NOT about Oldie, but was referencing the prior Hurricane Marty. So again, there was no major damage to boats in Marina's in La Paz during either Oldie or Newton. Which, was the point of my post, that for some weird reason you had a problem with the plain simple facts.

Why does this point even matter? Why not ignore it and move on?
Because cruise rumors to the contrary of Facts are bogus and need to be called out because people make important decisions and need to have the FACTS available to them....not misstatements that then carry some false weight because they "read it on the internet".
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:20   #51
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post

Why does this point even matter? Why not ignore it and move on?
Because cruise rumors to the contrary are bogus and need to be called out because people make important decisions and need to have the FACTS available to them....not misstatements that then carry some false weight because they "read it on the internet".
Mostly because of your snide way of trying to make a point...does that help. Yes, lets move on.
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:23   #52
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Mostly because of your snide way of trying to make a point...does that help. Yes, lets move on.
Apology accepted...yes we can move on now....
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:01   #53
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

Van 4 cuerpos hallados del naufragio en BCS; Capitanía Los Cabos, les habría negado refugio - BCS Noticias


ok has anyone paused to reflect on lives lost during this newtoncane???
hell NOOOOOO.
only focus is on personal possessions and superfluous bs. me me me me me me me rings a loud and shameful bell.
come on folks. get your heads out of your possession oriented XXXXX
and pray/think good thoughts for the stricken families of the 5 lost in sea of cortez in the capsizing of a shrimper denied safe harbor at cabo san lucas trying for port in mazatlan, unsuccessfully. imagine the work involved and the individual fear as each man of the sea knew truly that all was lost and they had no option for survival.
there are so many more important things to think about than insured losses.
relax and each time you crave shrimps, think on this fact--the shrimper leads a very dangerous life to provide YOU with a delicacy you enjoy.
they die in performance of their daily work so YOU can have yummmminess at will.
and not a single thought about them in their loss. get real folks. this coldness issuing from your hard hearts is shameful. not one mention of deaths and loss until i posted. and the BICKERING!!!!!!
while you all self absorbed souls are whining on the losses of REPLACEABLE items, PLEASE return to a semi human state and think good thoughts for a change about the families of those lost at sea.

ps ..they each have families...think about the families also, as your coconut shrimp arrive at your lovely dinner table.
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:05   #54
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

Do you really think for on minute others don't care about loss of life? Sure, people are discussing their losses of property. what do you expect?
Start a thread for the "moment of silence to life lost". Berating people here is not going to do a thing.
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Old 09-09-2016, 14:13   #55
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

Well, it's a funny thing. I read the Mexican report, and it was like old fashioned news, just facts. Then, I read what zee wrote in another thread on this subject, and I don't really think she is just berating some people on this thread. It may be hard for those of you who do not make a practice of putting yourself in the other guys' shoes.

This is the deal: some shrimp fishermen are dead. For them the struggles are over. However, for their families, the struggle has just intensified tremendously. As well as grief, and the awful irony that the fishermen were refused refuge in Cabo (correctly, according to the Harbor Master), they now have to deal with basic survival.

Juxtapose that with worrying about what to them must be rich men's toys. So, yeah, I'd have to concur, we would be well served by finding a balance to our concerns.

I'm gonna say again, there could be another one of those storms in 2 weeks, and those of you who are down there will be helped by thinking ahead on that, and especially, as well as taking care of your own boat, think to your neighbors, and to the preservation of the marina. Volunteer and help the staff. "Con permiso" and "por favor" can go a long way.

One other thing, look to your water supply, because often the water after a flood is not as good as before.

The issues that will have primacy will be water, food, and power, probably in that order, and the ever-present cleanup.



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Old 09-09-2016, 17:14   #56
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

There is another disturbance forming about 600 miles south of Cabo. I have thought of the possibility of a double punch to the same areas.
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Old 09-09-2016, 17:18   #57
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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There is another disturbance forming about 600 miles south of Cabo. I have thought of the possibility of a double punch to the same areas.
Please no...sent it off to the West....
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Old 09-09-2016, 18:34   #58
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Well, it's a funny thing. I read the Mexican report, and it was like old fashioned news, just facts. Then, I read what zee wrote in another thread on this subject, and I don't really think she is just berating some people on this thread. It may be hard for those of you who do not make a practice of putting yourself in the other guys' shoes.
Ann
It really is a hard balance to do this in practice Ann.

Have lived in the Philippines for 15 years, where Typhoons, Earthquakes, Floods... IS OLD FASHION NEWS.

Same mistakes, same 'trust in God ' attitude, but then to their credit.... an amazing... pick yourself up and survive attitude.

My first few events living in Puerto Galera, I worked hard as a neighbour to help them be proactive, had a generous wallet to help them rebuild, but never saw them get out of their comfort zone to put themselves into a more secure location or situation.

When I became the "go to" guy for every problem that somehow never seemed to get solved, I left that small community for a more anonymous one.

So it is both hard and frustrating to put yourself in others shoes, when you are more proactive in controlling your personal security.

Compassion yes, Guilt... NO!
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:18   #59
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

omygods i lied. the boat was not a shrimper but was a commercial fisher.
as for the formation currently forming south--WAY south of cabo at present, that is going out into pacific ocean to frighten hawaii. it will not double back to slam cabo. if you notice, it is still comfy inside the ictz, aka monsoonal trough. there are patterns to formations and tracks. those who pay attention to these storms and formations will see this.
you might want to follow eebmike a lil better, as he will relay these informations to you in lay aka easily understood terms.
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Old 10-09-2016, 14:47   #60
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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It really is a hard balance to do this in practice Ann.

Have lived in the Philippines for 15 years, where Typhoons, Earthquakes, Floods... IS OLD FASHION NEWS.

Same mistakes, same 'trust in God ' attitude, but then to their credit.... an amazing... pick yourself up and survive attitude. You may be right, but I think it is also a lack of resources, at least in Guymas, it's kind out at the end of the road. And I would not expect a Mexican or any other nationality of marina to adhere to US standards.

My first few events living in Puerto Galera, I worked hard as a neighbour to help them be proactive, had a generous wallet to help them rebuild, but never saw them get out of their comfort zone to put themselves into a more secure location or situation.

When I became the "go to" guy for every problem that somehow never seemed to get solved, I left that small community for a more anonymous one. Yes, it is hard to find a balance. When you go around solving other's problems for them, they don't learn to do it themselves. And it is not unreasonable to expect people to look after themselves, either.

So it is both hard and frustrating to put yourself in others shoes, when you are more proactive in controlling your personal security.

Compassion yes, Guilt... NO!
Right, no guilt.

But, i do think, that for the folks who are still there with their boats, with the formal end of cyclone season still about 6 weeks off, there is continued danger, and always the possibility of a storm of Odile's strength, instead of the relatively minor Cat 1 of Newton. Therefore, I am suggesting more planning ahead to cope, there will have been chafe, people will need more or better chafing gear, lines, and whatnot. I am saying more preparation.

And also I don't think we should harden our hearts to the deaths of the fishermen turned away when they sought refuge. They did not die pleasantly in their sleep, they died with the rest of their lives undone, and their families will have a hard row to hoe. Compassion, yes. Guilt, no.





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