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Old 07-09-2016, 18:51   #31
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

I heard earlier today that Raven's Song, an Ingrid 38, for sale in Cabo had gone down at the dock yesterday. The hurricane was not specifically mentioned, but it was my first thought.
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Old 07-09-2016, 19:05   #32
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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You bring up another lesson for me that perhaps you didn't think about...Next time I haul out I would refuse to go into a slot with a vessel that had their jib on a furler.

I would never have thought of it if you hadn't pointed that out and Zee's pictures.
Great to hear your boat is ok...talk about a pins and needles wait to find out.

Uggg....it makes my stomach ache and feel sick in seeing that photo. It's just unimaginable to lose your house, dream and way of life. Fortunately, tipping over in a boat yard looks bad, but it should be recoverable from...far easier than sinking. But you can imagine the costs and hassle of getting a new Rig down to San Carlos/Guymas....yikes.

It is worth noting that when Hurricane Oldie hit La Paz (much worse and stronger than Newton) boat damage in the Marina's there was minimal. So I wouldn't go as far as Zee in saying the SOC is too dangerous a place sit out hurricane season if in a secure marina. I've seen the Fonatur plastic docks...I'm not sure it's a shock that a decent storm tore them up.

We all know it's not fun and easy to remove all the sales and canvas but it increases your changes by lowering the windage loads. "Hope and Luck isn't a Hurricane Strategy" and those that don't prep their boats properly are actually putting not just themselves but others at risk as well.
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Old 07-09-2016, 19:28   #33
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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I heard earlier today that Raven's Song, an Ingrid 38, for sale in Cabo had gone down at the dock yesterday. The hurricane was not specifically mentioned, but it was my first thought.
We were aboard Raven's Song in May when she was moored at La Paz. She seemed solid and in fine condition for her age. She certainly did not seem like she would tank without significant cause. I hope the rumor isnt true as she was a beauty in her way!
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Old 07-09-2016, 20:29   #34
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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Great to hear your boat is ok...talk about a pins and needles wait to find out.

Uggg....it makes my stomach ache and feel sick in seeing that photo. It's just unimaginable to lose your house, dream and way of life. Fortunately, tipping over in a boat yard looks bad, but it should be recoverable from...far easier than sinking. But you can imagine the costs and hassle of getting a new Rig down to San Carlos/Guymas....yikes.

It is worth noting that when Hurricane Oldie hit La Paz (much worse and stronger than Newton) boat damage in the Marina's there was minimal. So I wouldn't go as far as Zee in saying the SOC is too dangerous a place sit out hurricane season if in a secure marina. I've seen the Fonatur plastic docks...I'm not sure it's a shock that a decent storm tore them up.

We all know it's not fun and easy to remove all the sales and canvas but it increases your changes by lowering the windage loads. "Hope and Luck isn't a Hurricane Strategy" and those that don't prep their boats properly are actually putting not just themselves but others at risk as well.
Well you know the way things are done in Mx. I was joking to a friend of mine that they probably used lag screws rather than thru-bolts on the docks because, hey...they both have hex heads.
I'm fully expecting to see my solar panels damaged from flying debris. I scraped the west marine brackets for them and made my own out of UHMW at 4X's the stoutness at least. The panels on the dodger top were barrel latched down and the top tarped. I'll know in 5 weeks and report back.
Also worth noting. Many people that decommission their boats for the hurricane season do not account for water drainage from the bilge. I pull my thru-hull hose off my watermaker (being the lowest thru-hull onboard) and jam a scrubby in the pipe to keep varmints out. This way water has a way out. I've heard of water up to the hatch boards in extreme cases.
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Old 07-09-2016, 21:27   #35
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

Just received this from the yard owner...

"Hello my friend
the hurricane was really strong, with a lot of water and crazy/nasty winds!! but after all our dry storage it is Good!! we got a couple incidents, but I can guarantee we do everything in our hands to protect the boats, we was been working hard during the hurricane
Your boat it is perfect my friend!!"
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Old 07-09-2016, 21:37   #36
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

Great point about leaving a way for water to drain from your boat during a big downpour. After Jimena in 2009, a few boats turned into bath tubs filled knee high above the salon floor with fresh water....uggg....

The first thing I thought of when I saw this photo is that the boat was pulled over when the roller furler gave way and the sail partially unrolled.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:36   #37
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

I've seen the Fonatur plastic docks...I'm not sure it's a shock that a decent storm tore them up.June just past I noticed while we where in Santa Rosalia, Fonatur marina that the main dock was the only part of the marina with piles. None of the fingers had them. I remember commenting to my wife that any storm would tear the fingers off. From the pics that looks like what happened. Fonatur seem to all have the same setup at all of the there dock facilities.

We did the bash back to San Diego in July. Still waiting to hear from some of our buddy boat friends holed up in San Carlos.
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Old 08-09-2016, 08:41   #38
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

The docks in Santa Rosilia held up amazingly well during hurricane Jimena in 2009. (but they were newer then) Our friends that were in the marina for the storm said that they think the only thing that held the marina together were all dock lines going to and from the boats in a giant cob web.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:43   #39
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

more..... and folks have to ask me why i donot go up the soc in summer.. HAH. there is no way out in the event of a nastiness such as this. i call it a boat trap.
but, insurance will not cover your boat's post storm issues if you are too far south . oops.
and this is only guaymas. i still have no pix nor communications here from cabo or la paz or other on peninsula affected areas. i will ask rayor his associate at the yacht brokerage when i see him--i presume ray is out and about inspecting his sales sites, which include baja sur and guaymas /san carlos as well as here.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:54   #40
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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i still have no pix nor communications here from cabo or la paz or other on peninsula affected areas. i will ask rayor his associate at the yacht brokerage when i see him--i presume ray is out and about inspecting his sales sites, which include baja sur and guaymas /san carlos as well as here.
Tom Brown of La Paz Cruisers Supply/Yacht Management reports that none of the Boat that were in Marina Palmira suffered hurricane damage despite the 80kts of wind. Just like in Oldie, the boats that were in a safe marina were fine. A safe Marina in La Paz would be my best hurricane option if I didn't want to make the Bay of Los Angeles run again, based on data. Oldie and now Newton and no damage to boats in safe Marina's in La Paz...that's good past history data, despite the increase costs over a dirt lot in Guymas.



As for the Boat Dominoes.
A"problem" is that with the relative infrequency of the Big Storms there just are not enough people around to remember and tell the stories to the new comers to the SOC summers about "the last one" so complacency sets in. Besides if "everyone" is putting their boat on the hard in a dirt lot (aka storm river) then it must be safe right? The dirt gets wet, the jack stands sink and over the boats go. Boats were toppled during Jimena in 2009 just like this year, and just like they will in the next storm 5-7 years from now and unfortunately people will be shocked when it happens because memories are short.

You feel absolutely horrible for the Cruisers that are now going to go through refit and insurance company hell and you wish there was something you could do to make it easier for them. Some will recover and continue cruising, but for some sadly, this will be the end of their dream. At this point after the storm, all you can do is save the photos, save the stories and share them with the new folks that will be coming down that wouldn't have had the first hand experience of seeing their friends boats severely damaged. My insurance company required me to write a "hurricane plan" for the 4 years we summered over in the SOC and reviewing these photos and stories would be a great data point for when future "hurricane plans" are written and submitted to your insurance companies.



Too soon...
Rich why are you being so negative?
Don't blame the victims...
No..that's not my point at all and I'm not blaming anyone.
People (and myself included) get lulled into complacency about the hurricane issue and the more people that do something, that seems to make it the "right thing to do" without every really thinking it through or looking at History. After seeing the aftermath of Jimena in 2009, there is no way I would have been in the dirt lot myself, but that's because I was in the SOC at the time and it scared the **** out of me. But saying that and giving that advice years later makes you "Mr Negative" or a doomsayer. The more time that passes since the last storm the more people forget, especially if they were not in the SOC at the time. I was called a fear monger by a cruiser friend when I warned him about the dirt lot, luckily his boat wasn't damaged, but many of his friends were not so lucky.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:34   #41
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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more..... and folks have to ask me why i donot go up the soc in summer.. HAH. there is no way out in the event of a nastiness such as this. i call it a boat trap.
but, insurance will not cover your boat's post storm issues if you are too far south . oops.
and this is only guaymas. i still have no pix nor communications here from cabo or la paz or other on peninsula affected areas. i will ask rayor his associate at the yacht brokerage when i see him--i presume ray is out and about inspecting his sales sites, which include baja sur and guaymas /san carlos as well as here.
Hmm m...seems to me there was a hurricane bearing down on you a year or so ago down in Bahia.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:27   #42
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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Hmm m...seems to me there was a hurricane bearing down on you a year or so ago down in Bahia.
where is bahia??
i survived a cat 5 cane in isla navidad with measured steady winds at 215 miles per hour, we got eye just after la perula as it tried to intensify. the marina i was berthed was designed specificallly as a hurricane hole with total protection from all except the winds from south.
i felt safe there, and there were NO damages despite the wrath which nature spent on the locale.
i would like to know what the point of this question is- i feel soc is a boat trap and will not go there. where i do go, i feel safe and have now proof of same, unlike the repeatedly destroyed areas encouraged by insurance companies and the blind gringo migration. .
there is a huge difference between proven safety and proven need to rebuild after each and every ts or cane.
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Old 08-09-2016, 14:37   #43
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

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where is bahia??
i survived a cat 5 cane in isla navidad with measured steady winds at 215 miles per hour, we got eye just after la perula as it tried to intensify. the marina i was berthed was designed specificallly as a hurricane hole with total protection from all except the winds from south.
i felt safe there, and there were NO damages despite the wrath which nature spent on the locale.
i would like to know what the point of this question is- i feel soc is a boat trap and will not go there. where i do go, i feel safe and have now proof of same, unlike the repeatedly destroyed areas encouraged by insurance companies and the blind gringo migration. .
there is a huge difference between proven safety and proven need to rebuild after each and every ts or cane.
independent thought is a blessing.
Sorry...Bara
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Old 08-09-2016, 22:18   #44
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

Good post, your #40, Rich.

Here's something I just posted on "Hurricane Newton and Guymas" thread:
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You are getting information from some parties that were the cause of the sinking of boats at Marina Fonatur Guaymas. There were many boats with insufficiant single lines tied too tight to the dock. "insufficient" is a judgment call, not criminal negligence. Many boats were not prepared. Ultimately, this is the owner's job to do.One very large and extremely heavy boat in particular came in and the person tied up with single 1/2" short old worn poly lines and then left the marina. Was this polypropylene? or polyester?

He did not return until the next day after it was all over. His boat was responsible for the sinking of three other boats. I was one of the persons who spent the entire night retying and replacing broken lines trying to save the docks and others boats. Good on ya, if true. It must have been rather upsetting, running around using up your spare, older, and perhaps not stretchy line, choosing whom to help and who not to.

This individual will most likely be sued for his negligence. Oh, and please be aware that he is one of the people posting here. Oh, yeah? then why not name him?
My point being, be careful what you believe just because it is written. Would that apply to you, as well?
Look, I know you've just been through a harrowing experience, with all the other yachties who were there to take care of their boats. We're well aware of the lengths that cruisers will go to save the docks, as well as other boats.

But planning a lawsuit -- in Mexico-- in the wake of a disaster seems way over the top, to me, kind of an ugly American reaction. Why not wait and see if this fellow, on his own, does the right thing and offers recompense for the damages his boat caused? Is he not required to have 3rd party liability insurance? Do you really want to spew venom now? Are you certain the marina contracts signed were all the same? Did some people write in riders?

I really hope everyone can settle down and reach fair agreements about responsibility and recompense. Everyone has been frightened and some, angry. Maybe it's time to chill out, and start planning for the next one. The docks will be more vulnerable next time, and I bet a bunch of folks will want some new line, etc.

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Old 09-09-2016, 00:06   #45
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Re: Hurricane Newton Hits Baja California (Cabo San Lucas) Sept 6 2016

one can not be in a marina in mexico without 3rd party insurance.
suing someone in mexico??.. good bludi luck. this aint usa
you all are up there due to insurance demands.
let insurance battle it out.
you were in a hurricane, for craps sake.
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