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Old 31-10-2014, 13:19   #76
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pirate Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

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It's peanuts because it's illegal and they adjust the price because buyers aren't going to paid huge prices for a product they may lose.

Once there is no risk, the people who are world's largest manufacturers and importers of drugs, with the largest and most extensive subject matter expertise in drug production, and the facilities already in place and operating, the cartels in Mexico and South America, are probably going to remain the world's largest legal manufacturer and importer of drugs.

Remember, the Mafia didn't even make alcohol. They just bought it and smuggled it in. The people who produced whiskey, etc., during prohibition, are a lot of the same companies who are doing it today, they just operated out of Canada, Cuba, and other nearby countries. Why wouldn't the cartels just open offices in the US and flood us with their drugs, running any small time local operations out of business? And, it's worse this time. This time, the manufacturers and the smugglers and the mid level dealers are all the same type people (not people you want to meet in dark alleys).


Why would history repeat itself this time? It's not the same preceding situation. And, the billionaires who run theses cartels didn't become billionaires by being stupid, or giving up easily. They have more business savvy that most of Wall Street and are a hundred times more ruthless. Legal or not, they are going to control the drug market for a long time.

How long you think a company like Merck would want to compete with the cartels when the CEO comes home and finds his children and wife in pieces and hanging from the ceiling?

Or do you think they will all find Jesus when drugs are legalized? I guess that could happen.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:15   #77
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

I think Robert Sailor has said it best in his last two comments. I would add one thing: only a very small percentage of drugs are interdicted yearly on the world market which is why illegal drugs continue to be so profitable. The media hype reporting major drug busts are the government's dog and pony show which represents only the tip of the iceberg and are used as government propaganda to justify the unconscionable and unjustified amounts of money spent on enforcement with such abysmal results. Once again, Big Brother is the cure to save "The Sheeple" from their stupidity and preserve the illusion of Law and Order. Of course, the taxpayer is the beneficiary of this government sham. You know, maybe the creation of another government agency to help the DEA will solve the problem. . . much like the stupidity of the "Ebola Czar" we have created in the US. Nothing like Big Brother!
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:35   #78
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

I have been in countries where everything was legal, the price of drugs was so high and the poverty so low that it was kept in check in the usual business sort of way. The natives just chewed their coca leaves and there was great injustice.
But it you want to live that way, be my guest. I will email you how to get there.
BTW- this is doc #2 that says Cocaine is a very bad drug for the heart, more so than alcohol or tobacco. It's not good for the nose either. (I am talking about abuser quantities, we used cocaine regularly in small amounts for ENT surgery. We also have medical/vet uses for alcohol and used to use tobacco for poultices)
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:42   #79
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

I have worked in a drug and alcohol treatment center and anyone who says that cocaine is harmless is either deluded or trying to drum up business.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:09   #80
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

Generally speaking of most addictive substances be it alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, heroin etc. Ten percent of users utilize nienty percent of product. Base on my non-statistically significant observation of users this holds very true. Just another piece to add to all the rants. Carry on.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:37   #81
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

IMO - the drug discussion should be completely tabled at the international level and all drugs should be "legalized". All funding should be diverted to the top 4/5 killers: heart attack, stroke, and lung infections/cancer, and lastly age related disorders.

Its a matter of prioritizing where money is spent, just like the cartels. Governments around the world can feel free to parade around saying how many 100's of millions of dollars or drugs have been destroyed and its a drop in the bucket. Interdiction is pretty much just grunt work and luck and grunt work is very very very expensive.

When cocaine and other drugs finally approach the top 5 list of killers, then we should have a discussion on that. Otherwise, prohibition is simply a waste of money.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:03   #82
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
I have been in countries where everything was legal, the price of drugs was so high and the poverty so low that it was kept in check in the usual business sort of way. The natives just chewed their coca leaves and there was great injustice.
But it you want to live that way, be my guest. I will email you how to get there.
BTW- this is doc #2 that says Cocaine is a very bad drug for the heart, more so than alcohol or tobacco. It's not good for the nose either. (I am talking about abuser quantities, we used cocaine regularly in small amounts for ENT surgery. We also have medical/vet uses for alcohol and used to use tobacco for poultices)
I don't think there is any argument that cocaine or for that matter any drug that is used in excess is unhealthy, even something as common as caffeine.

Purely anecdotal, but I've had a few friends in the past that had cocaine problems and several of them died very young from heart problems. One committed suicide after snorting himself from wealth to poverty.

The point is, it is blatantly obvious that the current policies are not working. I think there is some evidence that addiction if considered a disease to be treated instead of a crime to be punished, there would be better results with the users and reduced costs to society. Here I'm not just referring to financial costs but in impact on the users and their families and society in general, reduced drug crime and the impact that has on so many communities and possibly even some impact on the hypocrisy that permeates our legal and political system.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:21   #83
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

As the old saying goes, "follow the money". If the USA ever legalizes these drugs, it's because the politicians figured out a way to make even more money off it. Today, what with all the people and resources devoted to stopping/slowing down the influx of drugs, we have a huge portion of the population earning their living off the taxpayer. That base will scream like there is no tomorrow. (USCG exempted - they are some of the good folks).

It's for the same reason I contend that in my lifetime there will never be a cure for cancer. Look at the billions and billions of monetary units being spent annually on this pursuit. If a cure suddenly shows up, oops, now where do get our money from? Big pharma, big government, all the people earning a living from the pursuit will be cut off and lord knows we can't have that.

Follow the money. Call me cynical.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:28   #84
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

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I don't think there is any argument that cocaine or for that matter any drug that is used in excess is unhealthy, even something as common as caffeine.

Purely anecdotal, but I've had a few friends in the past that had cocaine problems and several of them died very young from heart problems. One committed suicide after snorting himself from wealth to poverty.

The point is, it is blatantly obvious that the current policies are not working. I think there is some evidence that addiction if considered a disease to be treated instead of a crime to be punished, there would be better results with the users and reduced costs to society. Here I'm not just referring to financial costs but in impact on the users and their families and society in general, reduced drug crime and the impact that has on so many communities and possibly even some impact on the hypocrisy that permeates our legal and political system.
Agree with you!
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:30   #85
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

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As the old saying goes, "follow the money". If the USA ever legalizes these drugs, it's because the politicians figured out a way to make even more money off it. Today, what with all the people and resources devoted to stopping/slowing down the influx of drugs, we have a huge portion of the population earning their living off the taxpayer. That base will scream like there is no tomorrow. (USCG exempted - they are some of the good folks).

It's for the same reason I contend that in my lifetime there will never be a cure for cancer. Look at the billions and billions of monetary units being spent annually on this pursuit. If a cure suddenly shows up, oops, now where do get our money from? Big pharma, big government, all the people earning a living from the pursuit will be cut off and lord knows we can't have tha

Follow the money. Call me cynical.
My feeling as well, its turned into an industry.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:57   #86
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

dpddj

I don't disagree with much of your point about money being a driving force but your "cure for cancer" argument is a little hollow. There are many causes of cancer such as radiation, chemical induced, viral induced and many others. Cancer is not one disease it is many many diseases effecting many different cell types and organ systems. Diabetes may have been a better example to prove your point utilizing healthcare. The prison system would be another excellent example. We have no problem in this country spending 30K on an inmate but can't fathom spending more then 8k on our students. Somewhere around 50% of students in USA intercity schools are dropping out of high school. What percentage of those kids end up in prison? Seems to me we have our priorities crossed somewhere. I would guess much is based on a few folks making a ton of cash while feed on the fear of the masses. For example people freaking out about Ebola and us spending time an money quarantining a few folks in US. 5K deaths world wide due to Ebola. Well over a million people die a year from Diarrhoeal disease, or heart disease, or upper respiratory infections etc etc. Humans freak out about the darnedest things. To bring it back to the drugs. Marijuana death per year around 0. Deaths from acetaminophen in USA alone about a 1000. Include all over the counter pain medication such as aspirin, ibuprofen etc and we might hit 2-3K in the USA. Acetaminophen is the leading cause of acute liver failure in the USA and the leading cause of liver failure leading to a transplant in England. Lets prioitise as someone said earlier. Why spend billions dealing with small problems while ignoring the elephants in the room.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:19   #87
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

Well, every, and I do mean every, presidential or congressional panel or committee that has examined the question of illegal drug trafficking into the US, including the late Nobel-prize-winning economist Milton Freidman, has had the same response to the subject.

Decriminalize drugs, and DUH? The economic incentive goes away. The enforcement costs go away. Taxation and income become possible. And everyone in the government and society wins. The only question becomes what tax rate to charge, and who gets allowed to use what. Pretty much the same thing that was done after Prohibition failed so grandly to accomplish anything except enriching mobsters. And, supposedly, Papa Joe Kennedy.

I can prove that every hard core drug user started out on mother's milk or baby formula. Doesn't make those into "gateway drugs" though, does it?
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Old 02-11-2014, 13:10   #88
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

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Well, every, and I do mean every, presidential or congressional panel or committee that has examined the question of illegal drug trafficking into the US, including the late Nobel-prize-winning economist Milton Freidman, has had the same response to the subject.

Decriminalize drugs, and DUH? The economic incentive goes away. The enforcement costs go away. Taxation and income become possible. And everyone in the government and society wins. The only question becomes what tax rate to charge, and who gets allowed to use what. Pretty much the same thing that was done after Prohibition failed so grandly to accomplish anything except enriching mobsters. And, supposedly, Papa Joe Kennedy.

I can prove that every hard core drug user started out on mother's milk or baby formula. Doesn't make those into "gateway drugs" though, does it?
Exactly how I feel.

At least I see a small crack in the damn of this system with certain countries including parts of the USA decriminalizing some of the 'bad' drugs.


It may only take another 20 years for us to make large changes on this front. We have to wait for some of the 'old timers' who cling to 'gateway' drug theories' to die off. We have politicians still claiming it's to protect the 'kids'.
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Old 02-11-2014, 20:08   #89
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

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As the old saying goes, "follow the money". If the USA ever legalizes these drugs, it's because the politicians figured out a way to make even more money off it. Today, what with all the people and resources devoted to stopping/slowing down the influx of drugs, we have a huge portion of the population earning their living off the taxpayer. That base will scream like there is no tomorrow. (USCG exempted - they are some of the good folks).

It's for the same reason I contend that in my lifetime there will never be a cure for cancer. Look at the billions and billions of monetary units being spent annually on this pursuit. If a cure suddenly shows up, oops, now where do get our money from? Big pharma, big government, all the people earning a living from the pursuit will be cut off and lord knows we can't have that.

Follow the money. Call me cynical.

Yikes. Guarantee that this is not the reason for cures existing for only some, but not all cancers.

In any case, coming from healthcare, the obesity trend/epidemic will keep me in business for 15 lifetimes. Go ahead and cure some cancers. Most are a small blip on my primary care radar compared to obesity related morbidity.


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Old 02-11-2014, 23:00   #90
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Re: Huge Cocaine haul off sailing boat!

This thread is now closed. Political discussions that have nothing to do with cruising and having to have posts deleted because of that are not for this forum.

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