Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-08-2010, 11:53   #16
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,767
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
there are a couple of reasons why you are not incognito in smugglers alley, between catalina and angels gate--first--IS smugglers alley.
us navy has safety zones around the ships of 500 ft. did you know this? is a law we are constantly reminded of here in sin diego bay, as we are in the area of 3 navy bases.
they DO know where all of us are in this area.

funny--i see tin cans coming in and out of sin diego all the time..no battleships anymore?? couldnt convince my by what is seen here on the water....is that like the "there is no oil plume" statement?? or are the ones i see actually being decommissioned?? i dont know--we see them all the time....

just curious....

is good to know that when caught in their center that they do lend a guiding paw to get us to safety....
__________________

zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 12:22   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
there are a couple of reasons why you are not incognito in smugglers alley, between catalina and angels gate--first--IS smugglers alley.
us navy has safety zones around the ships of 500 ft. did you know this? is a law we are constantly reminded of here in sin diego bay, as we are in the area of 3 navy bases.
they DO know where all of us are in this area.

funny--i see tin cans coming in and out of sin diego all the time..no battleships anymore?? couldnt convince my by what is seen here on the water....is that like the "there is no oil plume" statement?? or are the ones i see actually being decommissioned?? i dont know--we see them all the time....

just curious....

is good to know that when caught in their center that they do lend a guiding paw to get us to safety....

There are warships in San Diego bay, certainly. However, "Battleship" is a particular type of ship - what used to be the largest 'Capital' ship made. The last class of Battleships the US produced was the Iowa-class (BB-61-66 although BB-65 (to be USS Illinois) and BB-66 (USS Kentucky), both of which were to be a new class (Montana) class of battleship, reordered as Iowa-class ships, were never commissioned, and while partially built both were scrapped following WWII.

Of the 4 remaining Battleships, the USS Missouri (BB-63) is a museum ship in Pearl Harbor, the USS Iowa (BB-61) is in Suisun Bay in floating reserve (pending transfer to museum status or the breakers, I guess), BB-62 (USS New Jersey, who's recommissioning I attended in 1982 in Long Beach) is a msueum ship in New Jersey, and USS Wisconsin (BB-64) is a museum ship in Norfolk.

The Iowa class was almost 900 feet long and around 50,000 tons displacement, and each carried 9 (three triple mount) 16"/50 caliber naval rifle guns (plus smaller guns). The refit ships did away with some of the smaller guns, added others, and added cruise missile launchers and helicopter hangars, as well as lots of new electronics, electrical and mechanical systems. The Navy had to recruit rather old veterans to come and teach the current members how to fire the guns, among other things . The big guns could fire 2700 pound explosive shells as far as 23 miles.

Aside from the aircraft carriers and helicopter landing ships, the largest 'warships' the US Navy has are the Cruisers (on average 560 feet long and around 10,000 tons displacement for the Ticonderoga class), and the ballistic missile subs like the Ohio class (about 560 feet long and 16,800 tons submerged displacement). It's getting hard to tell 'gray water navy' ships apart, the US Navy has destroyers that are nearly as big as the Tico class 'cruisers' and frigates nearly as big as destroyers...

I've seen Nimitz class carriers in San Diego, but the big subs stay out since the water is rather shallow for them. There used to be attack subs homeported there, though. Likewise the battle ships, I'm not sure if any were homeported in the San Diego area.
__________________

__________________
Healer52 / Lisa, Rick and Angel the Salty Dog
Currently on the hard, looking for a boat
Healer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 12:29   #18
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,767
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
the redredging was completed a few yrs ago--nothing big goes past the bridge--carriers donot venture further south than carrier basin---everything else goes to 32nd st or nab or nassco--the fun stealth stuff goes to nab--they have the really good stuff and fun toys. fun to watch .
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 12:33   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Healer52 View Post
Interesting. BTW, no Navy has 'Battleships' anymore, the last 4 the US has are either museum ships or in storage for the breakers or to become museum ships. Kudos for keeping a proper watch!

But it's an interesting question for the COLREGS. An aircraft carrier undergoing flight ops is somewhat limited in it's ability to maneuver (they have to head mostly into the wind to launch/recover aircraft). An assault landing ship will want the seas pretty much head on for launching LCACs or other assault landing boats. Smaller ships with just helos may want to put the winds over a particular quarter to make the recovery easier, as well.

Now, we're supposed to stay clear of vessels that are limited in maneuverability. OTOH, vessels aren't suppose to take advantage of that rule. So, who wins?

Lets see, 25,000 pound (or less?) displacement sailboat, 90,000 ton (or more) displacement Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, with a half-dozen or more lesser warships with guns to protect it?

Tough call

You take'um down--one at a time.
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 13:05   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,848
I was running south in the chesapeake bay in nov. 07 heading for fl in my 34' trawler just south of Pax river at 2 in the afternoon on a clear day I was running 8 mph and was almost run over by a Navy catamaran He was running nw. This thing was fast running maybe 40mph we both had to make a hard over turn to avoid collision I was in the starb side of the channel and I will be dammed If I know why he came so close to me and his wake ratteled me pretty good Go figure Radar what radar?
__________________
motion30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 13:16   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
You take'um down--one at a time.
And let us know how that works out!
__________________
Healer52 / Lisa, Rick and Angel the Salty Dog
Currently on the hard, looking for a boat
Healer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 14:13   #22
Registered User
 
Eleven's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southampton UK
Boat: Jaguar 22 mono called Arfur.
Posts: 1,220
Images: 3
It's time to repeat the US Navy versus Lighthouse Joke but I'm too tired.
In Southampton (UK) Waters there is also a narrow channel. The cruise liners, container ships, and Oil Tankers have a thousand yard clear zone ahead of them. The police Launch escorting two cruise ships gave chase to a RIB, overhauled it and gave a very long winded lecture to the chap at the steering wheel about his chances of survival if his engine had cut. These big boys are a real problem in some of the narrower portions, speeds are higher than most sail boats, braking is negligible and likely to lead to a grounding in any sort of wind in-spite of rotating drive pods. Tankers with tugs have even less chance of avoiding stupidity. Fortunately there are only a dozen or so each day, but look out is a serious job, there are still three 20 kt car ferries, and three 45kt fast cats to-ing and fro-ing.
__________________
Ex Prout 31 Sailor, Now it's a 22ft Jaguar called 'Arfur' here in sunny Southampton, UK.
A few places left in Quayside Marina and Kemps Marina.
Eleven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 14:20   #23
Registered User

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 316
Quote:
An aircraft carrier undergoing flight ops is somewhat limited in it's ability to maneuver (they have to head mostly into the wind to launch/recover aircraft)
Good point. And the flyers coming home may be very low on fuel.
__________________
Drew13440 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 14:46   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew13440 View Post
Good point. And the flyers coming home may be very low on fuel.
Bah! F/A-18's are ALWAYS low on fuel. The first radio call they make after launch is 'Bingo'......

But seriously, when the boat is conducting flight ops, they have a tanker in the air, and another on 5-minute launch status, just in case somebodies thirsty.
__________________
Healer52 / Lisa, Rick and Angel the Salty Dog
Currently on the hard, looking for a boat
Healer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 15:28   #25
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,883
I had a US Navy experience returning from Mexico to San Diego in the early 80’s.

We had been doing whale watching tours from SD to Cabo beginning in January, when the Grey Whales are birthing in San Ignacio and Magdalena Bay.

I was running a Canadian 180ft charter boat approaching SD in early morning fog with 26 passengers onboard.

Parallel indexing we had good positional info, but remember this was pre-GPS/AIS or ARPA.

From radio traffic I knew that the Navy was doing exercises so I made a securite call of our approach.

On the Radar, about 3 miles away I had been plotting 3 targets doing dramatic zigzag courses at varying speeds and then 2 split around me, the 3rd straight towards.

Kept calling on the radio, CG confirmed there were US navy ships out there but no response from those 3.

Finally when I was within half a mile of them, (still no visibility) I crash stopped my vessel to get a better True Motion perspective and called “US warships… please advise your intentions”…..

Got the belated response I needed…. “Please continue on your course, we are exercising around you” and then the one in front made a sharp turn to starboard as the other 2 closed in on my stern.

I was not impressed with their arrogance or the fact that they would use my passengers and vessel to play games with…. in those conditions...
__________________
Pelagic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2010, 18:39   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I had a US Navy experience returning from Mexico to San Diego in the early 80’s.

We had been doing whale watching tours from SD to Cabo beginning in January, when the Grey Whales are birthing in San Ignacio and Magdalena Bay.

I was running a Canadian 180ft charter boat approaching SD in early morning fog with 26 passengers onboard.

Parallel indexing we had good positional info, but remember this was pre-GPS/AIS or ARPA.

From radio traffic I knew that the Navy was doing exercises so I made a securite call of our approach.

On the Radar, about 3 miles away I had been plotting 3 targets doing dramatic zigzag courses at varying speeds and then 2 split around me, the 3rd straight towards.

Kept calling on the radio, CG confirmed there were US navy ships out there but no response from those 3.

Finally when I was within half a mile of them, (still no visibility) I crash stopped my vessel to get a better True Motion perspective and called “US warships… please advise your intentions”…..

Got the belated response I needed…. “Please continue on your course, we are exercising around you” and then the one in front made a sharp turn to starboard as the other 2 closed in on my stern.

I was not impressed with their arrogance or the fact that they would use my passengers and vessel to play games with…. in those conditions...
Every now and then you find a bozo....

I was flying in a small aircraft (Cessna 182) from Los Angeles to Las Vegas one afternoon, and out over the desert I was dead-bang on the victor airway (confirmed by ATC) and I was intercepted by an F111....Not cool.

The AF tried to blow it off, saying it didn't happen, that I didn't know what an F111 looked like (I was an AF Pilot, for goodness sake, flying F4's), etc.... I didn't press it.
__________________
Healer52 / Lisa, Rick and Angel the Salty Dog
Currently on the hard, looking for a boat
Healer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2010, 02:11   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Boat: International Etchells USA 125 Black Magic, Santana 20 475 Ghost, Hobie 33 3100 Bruja, dinghies,
Posts: 1,118
I believe the US warship exclusion zone has two parts: 500 yard go at minimum speed and 100 yard absolutely do not enter if you value your life!

Oh, and I think somewhere it was said that the Iowa had been proposed as a museum ship for San Francisco but bay-area politics torpedoed that plan.
__________________
rgscpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2010, 03:20   #28
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,536
Images: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Most of the divers (and fishermen) really have no clue what they're doing out there. I've yet to be on a private fishing boat that was on channel 16, or even knew what channel 16 was. Their charts, even when ~50 miles offshore consist of the fishing maps you can buy at west marine. It blows me away that those guys aren't getting killed on a daily basis.
Oh dear, thats really worrying. I always carried the VHF switched on, coastal flares pack ready and a nice big torch. Whilst I have little sympathy for the Destroyer, what did the dive boat do, just sit there like rabbits in a cars headlights? The dive boat may have not done anything wrong, but they could have avoided this.

Pete
__________________
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2010, 03:30   #29
Registered User
 
fishwife's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South coast of England, moving around a bit.
Boat: Long range motor cruiser
Posts: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Healer52 View Post
Snipping most of a very informative post.....

The big guns could fire 2700 pound explosive shells as far as 23 miles.
Just one of those is bound to ruin your day.



P.
__________________
The message is the journey, we are sure the answer lies in the destination. But in reality, there is no station, no place to arrive at once and for all. The joy of life is the trip, and the station is a dream that constantly out distances us”. Robert Hastings, The Station
fishwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-08-2010, 11:54   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
There isn't much in the news article other than neither vessel sank which means to me that it was a near miss. It didn't say whether they were both underway or one was anchored. It didn't mention whether it was day or night. It didn't say what area they were in but I know we used to use San Clemente as a target for gunnery practice and there are a lot of restricted areas for just this reason.
Navy ships are manned by professionals who are very attentive. They know that any safety infraction makes you lose a career.
regards,
__________________

__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Going to Make it Happen ! CaptainNoah Meets & Greets 2 19-04-2010 12:25
Who Says This Wouldn't Ever Happen? CaptainK The Sailor's Confessional 1 12-03-2006 18:13
How Can This Happen? sjs Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 31-05-2005 11:56
It can happen ... GordMay Health, Safety & Related Gear 2 12-08-2004 14:27



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.