Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-11-2009, 22:37   #121
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoe71 View Post
Why would you think that? Political expediency trumps common sense regularly. Governments bury the truth daily. I worked for one for 28 years and personally saw the spin doctoring of the information being given out and got into some significant sh!t for trying to give out real facts.

In the story referenced there is no denial from the gov't spokesman, only the comment that they thought they did the best they could under the circumstances. Just another failure of a government to actually protect their citizens.

But I have to say I think it was a mistake to be anywhere near that area.

WOW...it is hard to conceive isn't it...I cant fathom it myself...but I bet I would not want to believe half of what our governments world wide actually do.

Very sad state of affairs all around...

I will fault the media as much as politicians calling the shots for not giving the news to us straight most of the time but slanting it pandering to one side or the other...we need the light of truth shined on all shenanigan's and missed deeds no mater where it comes from.
__________________

__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 05:24   #122
TOM
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On our yacht Byamee
Boat: Footloose 40 steel cutter
Posts: 316
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoel_Asia View Post
You have cruised from Panama across the Pacific and you've now "done" Australia: Time to leave Darwin and head for South Africa. Are you seriously suggesting a direct 6,000nm of headwinds rather than the safer Sri Lanka, Maldives, Seychelles route?

Its very easy to say folks shouldn't go there but come on, a 1,000nm offshore no-go zone is jut plain ridiculous. It's like saying you can't sail anywhere in the Caribbean. With the rate of expanding activity, even Mauritius and La reunion will be out of bounds ... since I've been to Reunion and love the place, I'd find it a destination hard to give up. And I have friends in Mauritius extending the kind of open door "if you are passing this way ..." type invitation which really can't be passed on.

Jimmy Cornell would suggest a June/October departure from Darwin to arrive South Africa October via Christmas Island/Indonesia, Cocos Keeling, Mauritius and on to South Africa. Chagos could also be another stop. The SE trades would be on your back quarter.

To me it makes little sense why you would use a Sri Lanka, Maldives route to get to South Africa, this would be the itinerary I would use on the route to the Red Sea.

Somali pirates are operating further afield, the caution are being north of 10 degrees south and west of 60 degrees east. Mauritius and Reunion are approx. another 700 nm south of that region.

Please let’s not get carried away. Although a big problem, the Somali pirates have not shut down the Indian Ocean.

www.byamee.com
__________________

__________________
TOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 07:58   #123
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Quote:
Soldiers don't run, politicians do. I know you were just trying to bring home a point, but it hits a nerve. Dissing the people who are following orders is not productive, diss the yahoo who gave that order. With a little research I bet you could come up with a name.
True that, just follow the chain of command upwards. The litle bugger's up there somewhere.
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 09:06   #124
Registered User
 
Rhoel_Asia's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Phnom Penh, Cambodia
Boat: boatless at the moment :-(, Previous Itchen Ferry 25.
Posts: 89
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Soldiers don't run, politicians do. I know you were just trying to bring home a point, but it hits a nerve. .... you could come up with a name.E
Possibly and I am not denigrating the guys on board - through my work in Southampton, I had an honorary officers rank and spent many hours out at sea with the Senior Service: The most scar incident was landing in a Sea King on the stern of a warship during a force 7 ... instruction was to bail out and hit the deck flat ... the pilot was using negative pitch to hold the helicopter on deck. Fast hair cut if you ignored the instruction.

The information I was given indicates there are plenty of Naval guys who are just as disappointed by the inaction. One would have thought that sustained burs of machine gun fire over their bows would be enough to convince the guys the kidnap was over - they were after all many miles away from the safety of their own ship and had they been run down, their position of power would have been over. As for the MOD statement, if the vessel had done so commendable well, why was there the need to silence the encounter?

As for the misinformation or spin: This is neither Misinformation would have been "RFA responded to the distress call and located the Chandler's yacht. When a boarding party checked the yacht, it was found to be empty." Both statements are true. It merely omits the "we saw them kidnapped." The lie is we don't know what happened. that appears to have wasted time and resources of other vessels and officials elsewhere.

Interestingly, many have proposed a Q ship solution. RFA's are not warships per say, they are supply vessels: That said, they are in effect Q ships, more than adequately armed and able to defend themselves. Yet despite their superior weaponry, they were unable to offer covering fire or otherwise protect the yacht.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM View Post
Jimmy Cornell would suggest a June/October departure from Darwin to arrive South Africa October via Christmas Island/Indonesia, Cocos Keeling, Mauritius and on to South Africa. Chagos could also be another stop. The SE trades would be on your back quarter.

I don't have his books here at present and my Admiralty Sailing directions are safety tucked up in a UK lockup. The Sri Lanka route was suggested for December departure. The Darwin route is interesting - I had looked at the Sunda Straits/Krakatoa option as the Straits of Malacca as still problematical. I also have relative living in Jakarta which adds weight to that crossing the equator early route. is the Jim
Cornell information available online? A link would be appreciated.

But it will be two years before I need to worry, I'm still in build mode.
Hopefully this current wave of Somali activity will have beem resolved by then.
__________________
Rhoel_Asia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 14:24   #125
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Reading between the lines...


It may be a little unfair to infer that the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Wave Knight had the ability to intervene. The boat in the photo above is not exactly bristling with firepower, and it is very unlikely that the 75 merchant seamen and 25 Royal Navy Sailors had the training or experience to do anything except watch.

I'd also guess that they were most likely following the pirate boats and only saw the initial contact from a considerable distance, arriving after the S/V Lynn Rival had been taken.

The VHF on S/V Lynn Rival may not have been turned on so it would not have been possible to warn them.
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 14:41   #126
Registered User
 
Rhoel_Asia's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Phnom Penh, Cambodia
Boat: boatless at the moment :-(, Previous Itchen Ferry 25.
Posts: 89
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
The boat in the photo above is not exactly bristling with firepower, and it is very unlikely that the 75 merchant seamen and 25 Royal Navy Sailors had the training or experience to do anything except watch.

I'd also guess that they were most likely following the pirate boats and only saw the initial contact from a considerable distance, arriving after the S/V Lynn Rival had been taken.

The VHF on S/V Lynn Rival may not have been turned on so it would not have been possible to warn them.
Granted: So why the deceit? Why the complete blackout on the RFA involvement and the failure to report for 5 days they were in the hands of the Somalis? The FCO were stating they were doing everything possible 2-3 days after the incident to discover if they had been taken - the navy knew, is the Foreign & Commonwealth Office saying it wasn't told?

This just isn't lying straight in bed at present.

Rhoel
__________________
Rhoel_Asia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 15:02   #127
Registered User
 
fishwife's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South coast of England, moving around a bit.
Boat: Long range motor cruiser
Posts: 750
Is it too far fetched to think that our (British) government are happy to have examples of 'Islamic' piracy conflated with terrorism. It's also worth noting that there was a diplomatic mission to Somalia planned for a couple or so weeks after the couple were kidnapped. Perhaps they didn't want anything to 'disrupt' the negotiations, like half a dozen dead pirates.

Paige
__________________
The message is the journey, we are sure the answer lies in the destination. But in reality, there is no station, no place to arrive at once and for all. The joy of life is the trip, and the station is a dream that constantly out distances us. Robert Hastings, The Station
fishwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 15:14   #128
Registered User
 
fishwife's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South coast of England, moving around a bit.
Boat: Long range motor cruiser
Posts: 750
I have to post on this again, sorry. Like Rhoel, I have some understanding of the way things are done in the Navy. When a Royal Fleet Auxiliary Vessel goes into harms way, they are given a covering vessel or a complement of Marines. The 25 Royal Navy 'Sailors' were likely to be Marines and armed to the teeth. They also had a helicopter which probably (likely) had a door mounted machine gun. I despair, I really do.

Paige
__________________
The message is the journey, we are sure the answer lies in the destination. But in reality, there is no station, no place to arrive at once and for all. The joy of life is the trip, and the station is a dream that constantly out distances us. Robert Hastings, The Station
fishwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 16:54   #129
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post

It may be a little unfair to infer that the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Wave Knight had the ability to intervene. The boat in the photo above is not exactly bristling with firepower, and it is very unlikely that the 75 merchant seamen and 25 Royal Navy Sailors had the training or experience to do anything except watch.

I'd also guess that they were most likely following the pirate boats and only saw the initial contact from a considerable distance, arriving after the S/V Lynn Rival had been taken.

The VHF on S/V Lynn Rival may not have been turned on so it would not have been possible to warn them.
I'm pretty sure they could have handled a glorified innertube and called in help to take down the mothership
__________________
c-kow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2009, 17:48   #130
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
It would seem Wave Kinght's inability to respond to pirate attacks is very selective: News : RFA Wave Knight : Fast Fleet Tankers : RFA Flotilla : Royal Fleet Auxiliary : Operations and Support : Royal Navy .

Quote:
From the above...

...Via radio, Wave Knight ordered the dhow to stop and used a Royal Navy armed force protection team as well as the ship's own weapons team to provide cover. The pirate vessel complied.

...The intervention resulted in the release of 13 fishermen who had been held hostage by pirates since 12 April. The seven suspected pirates aboard the dhow were not captured in the act of piracy so they were released, but they were disarmed and their weapons destroyed.
As, when and if the Political Class defines the mission, the military including the RN, USN, USA, USMC et al wiill respond. Until then they are hamstrung by indecisiveness.

FWIW...
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2009, 09:40   #131
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,117
ANOTHER attempt to hi-jack the Maersk Alabama leaves me-----well, almost speechless!!
How does a right thinking person logic this out?
Are the pirates so individualistic in operations that no 2 know what ship is being attacked. I know its a large area of ocean --but--What the H*LL!!.
Do they think that the ship would not now be armed to the teeth?
Do they think that the Maersk Line is weak, and will continue to pay ransom?
The pirates are NOW complaining that the Warships outgun them
Surely we have reached some sort of an international law situation where an authorized vessel has the right to challenge what appears to be an imminent threat.
If they claim to be "fishing vessels" and are found to be carrying offensive weapons (RPGs, heavy machine guns, etc) this must account for something sinister. Where are the nets, the bait boxes, the longlines and floats? COME ON, NOW!!
I have done electrical work in the past on Korean fishing vessels working around Bermuda, and am yet to find any suggestion that these types of weapons are carried for "vessel protection " from outside threat.
__________________
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2009, 10:26   #132
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
I think the Pirates still have around a dozen ships held for ransom.

Although they no doubt still have the crew onboard as hostages I would still sink them at anchor Not with a 500lb bomb but in a reasonably controlled manner, if not from 30mm cannon into the waterline then by scuba diver planted explosives. Even if not actually sunk, a partly flooded vessel will soon not be worth anything, apart from scrap value. I would do this under a UN flag, with the action being taken by whoever has the capacity and willpower.

Maybe a UN compensation fund for the vessel & cargo owners / the insurance company (so the pirates know that no one has any financial interest left in the ships)..........the idea being to remove the big incentive for piracy if they know the prize asset will simply be sunk. Of course they can still go for crews, but the Somalis ain't stupid - most of the crews are 3rd world citizens with no "commercial value" to their employers.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2009, 10:56   #133
Registered User
 
Rhoel_Asia's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Phnom Penh, Cambodia
Boat: boatless at the moment :-(, Previous Itchen Ferry 25.
Posts: 89
Images: 5
news broke a few hours ago to say the captain of the MV Theresa VIII, which was seized a few days ago, has died of gunshot injuries he sustained in the attack.

Source: BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8366097.stm

In a separate report, BBC report the US has deployed unmanned REAPER drones to monitor the pirates, to gather court-grade evidence on 'fishermen' preparing for attacks, ditching weapons overboard etc.
Source BBC: Drones scour the sea for pirates
__________________
Rhoel_Asia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2009, 11:06   #134
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
ANOTHER attempt to hi-jack the Maersk Alabama leaves me-----well, almost speechless!!
How does a right thinking person logic this out?
Are the pirates so individualistic in operations that no 2 know what ship is being attacked. I know its a large area of ocean --but--What the H*LL!!.
Do they think that the ship would not now be armed to the teeth?
Do they think that the Maersk Line is weak, and will continue to pay ransom?
The pirates are NOW complaining that the Warships outgun them
Surely we have reached some sort of an international law situation where an authorized vessel has the right to challenge what appears to be an imminent threat.
If they claim to be "fishing vessels" and are found to be carrying offensive weapons (RPGs, heavy machine guns, etc) this must account for something sinister. Where are the nets, the bait boxes, the longlines and floats? COME ON, NOW!!
I have done electrical work in the past on Korean fishing vessels working around Bermuda, and am yet to find any suggestion that these types of weapons are carried for "vessel protection " from outside threat.
Well they won't think Maersk line is weak because that ship was armed and returned fire. Which convinced the pirates to buggar off. Perhaps that says something?
__________________
jdoe71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2009, 11:47   #135
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoe71 View Post
Well they won't think Maersk line is weak because that ship was armed and returned fire. Which convinced the pirates to buggar off. Perhaps that says something?

EXACTLY!!
__________________

__________________
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Somalia

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pirates in Somalia seafox General Sailing Forum 9 07-04-2008 13:24
US Navy Seizes Pirate Ship Off Somalia Andy R Health, Safety & Related Gear 6 26-01-2006 18:48



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.