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Old 07-11-2009, 06:23   #106
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Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
Its not as easy as one would think they are embedded within a lot of innocent people.

If only our military was a good as Hollywood makes them out to be it would be a piece of cake...all we would need is One Stallone or one Schorzinager to get the job done.

BBC NEWS | Africa | Postcard from Somali pirate capital

I can personally tell you they are that good…and better. You just have to let go of the leash. You would be amazed at the capabilities of our forces. It is all politics and commitment.
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Old 07-11-2009, 13:50   #107
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Strange having to quote myself for the sake of clarity.
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The UNITED NATIONS should be able to deal with this, if talk could ever achieve anything. What else do they ever do? Otherwise the EEC and USA should co-ordinate and show that this action will not be tolerated. How many innocent civilians have to lose this fight before the military is prepared to defend them? It is certainly time to blockade that port with a multinational force, based, but limited to, international waters. Marine, helicopter and special forces can then operate with some assurance of artillery, evacuation or reinforcement in support as needed.
MY POINT WAS, AND IS, THAT A BLOCKADE CAN BE EFFECTIVE FROM INTERNATIONAL WATERS. ONLY VESSELS TRAVELLING AWAY FROM THE PORT NEED BE INTERCEPTED.
ONLY SOME OF THOSE VESSELS NEED TO BE INSPECTED. PIRACY CANNOT OPERATE THROUGH AN EFFECTIVE BLOCKADE, THE ODDS OF GETTING A WORTHWHILE 'CAPTURE' BECOMES UNLIKELY, LET ALONE RETURNING WITH IT.
NO LAWS BROKEN IF THE FORCE IS PEACEKEEPING IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS.
JUST TAKES A VOTE IN THE UN COUNCIL CONDEMNING PIRACY.
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Old 07-11-2009, 14:07   #108
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Eleven: Sorry, I didn't understand your whispered proposition (sometimes youy just have to yell, at some of us ).
Yes, a "blockade" is something the UN might be able to realistically undertake, tho' expensive.
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Old 07-11-2009, 15:11   #109
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I think a blockade is definitly in order. Frankly, why the heck aren't they doing that now? Good idea Eleven!
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Old 07-11-2009, 17:36   #110
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A blockade won't be easy Somalia has the longest coast line in Africa some 1,500 nms; its the 39th longest coast in teh world and longer than South Africa
List of countries by length of coastline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Blockade runners can run drugs in and out of the USA at will; and blockades were purvious in WW2 around small countires like Singapore, Malta etc and illegal immigrants can run amok in the USA, Australian and European waters.

IMHO Any attempt at blockading Somalia would economicaly unsustainable.
Just arrest them and take them to trial instead of putting them back in their boats like the Australians shamefully do.
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Old 09-11-2009, 14:47   #111
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I absolutely agree that “paying off” criminals cannot be any part of an effective long-term national/international policy.
Notwithstanding, as a matter of personal expediency, (were I a pirate captive) I’d like to think that my family & nation would do whatever it took (including ransom) to safeguard my life, prior to executing national policy.
I think for most cases that has been done.
There are warnings not to go there. Plenty of them.
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Old 10-11-2009, 04:47   #112
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The Tortoise approach

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There are warnings not to go there.
But as has already been pointed out, what are the alternatives? If you are in the Seychelles, you are surrounded.

Perhaps people are on the wrong tack here: Is it not the responsibility of every sailor to take preventative action - the chandlers were asleep at the time of their capture ... so basic seamanship 101 failed for not keeping a proper lookout.

Most yachts are designed to make things easy for us: Unfortunately, it also makes life easy for the miscreants. That stainless steel boarding ladder is an open invitation. And the stantions and guard rail make excellent handholds for dingy to deck transfers. My mind is thinking how nice it would be to modify a farm electric fence and wire it to the guard rail ... like to see a pirate grab one of those at sea.

Consider a tortoise ... he sees a predator approach and retracts all vulnerable parts: A yacht can also do the same - hatches and companionways which which really are secure: At anchor. at night in an isolated hot country where hatches are left open, it is still possible to have them open but keep intruders out ... the last thing you need at 03:45 is to discover an armed visitor inside the main cabin - In Cambodia my home has open windows in all but the worst monsoon rains ... we have steel grills and insect screens on all entrances/windows and it has prevented the local monkeys (of both varieties) from getting in - to do the same on a boat would be very simple. On teh current boat design I am working with, we are looking at this very problem - the Gulf of Thailand/South China Sea has a reputation for petty theft and its a real problem. So prevention is by far the best deterrent.

It could be argued pirates could simply take a "tortoise" into tow: In that event, the occupants would at least be able to send radio messages, activate distress beacons or take other forms of action such as engine astern or full ahead.

But if the entire crew sleep in known pirate waters without keeping proper watch, it makes life too damn easy for the pirates.

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Old 10-11-2009, 08:54   #113
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But as has already been pointed out, what are the alternatives? If you are in the Seychelles, you are surrounded.

Perhaps people are on the wrong tack here: Is it not the responsibility of every sailor to take preventative action - the chandlers were asleep at the time of their capture ... so basic seamanship 101 failed for not keeping a proper lookout.

Most yachts are designed to make things easy for us: Unfortunately, it also makes life easy for the miscreants. That stainless steel boarding ladder is an open invitation. And the stantions and guard rail make excellent handholds for dingy to deck transfers. My mind is thinking how nice it would be to modify a farm electric fence and wire it to the guard rail ... like to see a pirate grab one of those at sea.

Consider a tortoise ... he sees a predator approach and retracts all vulnerable parts: A yacht can also do the same - hatches and companionways which which really are secure: At anchor. at night in an isolated hot country where hatches are left open, it is still possible to have them open but keep intruders out ... the last thing you need at 03:45 is to discover an armed visitor inside the main cabin - In Cambodia my home has open windows in all but the worst monsoon rains ... we have steel grills and insect screens on all entrances/windows and it has prevented the local monkeys (of both varieties) from getting in - to do the same on a boat would be very simple. On teh current boat design I am working with, we are looking at this very problem - the Gulf of Thailand/South China Sea has a reputation for petty theft and its a real problem. So prevention is by far the best deterrent.

It could be argued pirates could simply take a "tortoise" into tow: In that event, the occupants would at least be able to send radio messages, activate distress beacons or take other forms of action such as engine astern or full ahead.

But if the entire crew sleep in known pirate waters without keeping proper watch, it makes life too damn easy for the pirates.

Rhoel
Yea, but.

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If you are in the Seychelles
It took you a while to get there and this problem has been around a long while.

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My mind is thinking how nice it would be to modify a farm electric fence and wire it to the guard rail ... like to see a pirate grab one of those at sea.
There are multiple posts on this. Supposedly it works. Me thinks it would work for petty theft but not well armed pirates.

Quote:
Consider a tortoise ... he sees a predator approach and retracts all vulnerable parts: A yacht can also do the same - hatches and companionways which which really are secure:
The rig is still there. Two slices (three if a cutter - etc.) and the boat stops.

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the occupants would at least be able to send radio messages, activate distress beacons or take other forms of action such as engine astern or full ahead.
One and two yea. Three. Nah. The controls are in the cockpit.

I seriously doubt any cruising yacht can deter these well armed groups in this area unless they have lots of accurate fire power or some large sonic system. Wonder what that draws in amps?
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:00   #114
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It took you a while to get [to the Seychelles] and this problem has been around a long while.
You have cruised from Panama across the Pacific and you've now "done" Australia: Time to leave Darwin and head for South Africa. Are you seriously suggesting a direct 6,000nm of headwinds rather than the safer Sri Lanka, Maldives, Seychelles route?

Its very easy to say folks shouldn't go there but come on, a 1,000nm offshore no-go zone is jut plain ridiculous. It's like saying you can't sail anywhere in the Caribbean. With the rate of expanding activity, even Mauritius and La reunion will be out of bounds ... since I've been to Reunion and love the place, I'd find it a destination hard to give up. And I have friends in Mauritius extending the kind of open door "if you are passing this way ..." type invitation which really can't be passed on.

It's worth considering the Straits of Malacca used to be pirate infested; it no longer is - both the Indonesian and Malaysian navies commenced year round patrols, an operation backed up by land police action. It no longer became commercially viable for them to operate and the problem went away. Paying the Somali pirates now is making it very commercially viable.

And therein lies the problem - the Somalis have learned piracy pays. if it didn't, no-one would head out 1,000nm to harrass yachts. The very worst thing that could happen now is for the relatives or yacht insurers to pay even a single $1 ... it would convey the message "Yachts are worth attacking" and put all yachts at risk. With no reward, the incentive to attack small craft would vanish.

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Old 15-11-2009, 07:29   #115
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Military vessel watched the couple taken Hostage.

A new development this week, one which calls into question the integrity of the Royal Navy.

It is now revealed the Royal Fleet Auxiliary tanker Wave Knight came within 15m (50') of the abduction as it happened, and watched as a British couple were forced off their yacht by Somali pirates: It did not intervene with firepower as " it had not wanted to endanger the couple's lives." Apparently the ship was ordered not to fire (but by whom is not as yet revealed).

In this light, subsequent official announcements by the Royal Navy having "found the couple's yacht empty", comes as close to a deliberate and outright lie as is possible to imagine. The story would not have become public knowledge had an anonymous crew member of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship not leaked the story to the press.

It calls into question the entire international naval presence. If this RFA was unable to do anything (although a supply vessel carries a compliment 25 Royal Navy sailors, 75 merchant seaman as well as a helicopter) could not assist, or at the very least shadowed the skiffs until more advance naval vessels were on the scene, what the hell are we deploying the navy there; It sent the message out very loud and clear the international force is impotent. FUBAR.

Whitehall has some serious questions to answer, not least why it attempted to silence its failure, released false information and generally behaved in a way below its reputation for integrity.

Story here: BBC NEWS | UK | MoD vessel 'watched yacht couple'
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Old 15-11-2009, 13:28   #116
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this has been an issue for long enough that anyone sailing there voluntarily is just asking for it---get real and avoid the bad spots on this earth until such time as they have been dealt with .......somalia has been a bad spot for many years--is nothing new---there have been piracy reports in other areas for decades---what is soooo difficult about avoidance and using common sense------
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Old 15-11-2009, 14:38   #117
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---what is soooo difficult about ... using common sense---
Avoidance is too easily said from the US west coast where there isn't a piracy problem.

As for commonsense, I recently I sat down and read their blog and other information. The considered opinion (although divided) in the Seychelles was the piracy has stopped in the area due to the onset of the SE Monsoon, which made the conditions for small open boats too dangerous. You might want to check out their route and blog [url=http://blog.mailasail.com/lynnrival]here{/url], as its interesting ... they had already sailed through the Gulf of Aden and taken a very wide berth of Somalia to get to Seychelles. Greenhorns they weren't.

Avoidance isn't an option for the Indian Ocean/South China Sea - they can get you anywhere: Last year a British sailor had his throat cut and body thrown overboard near the Thai/Malaysia border. That area of coast is both spectacular and popular with boats out of Singapore/Australia. The safety issue is the same for much of the Caribbean and Hook of Africa: Somalia are just more professional at the moment; Straits of Malacca are currently quieter.

What differentiates this attack is it appears to have happened 50' from a Royal Naval vessel who did nothing before running away, leaving another UN French warship to discover and report the abandoned vessel 5 days later.

We may never discover the full truth about who in the Navy and Foreign Office knew what. But according to one Southampton (UK) source, the leak was not from a rating but a RFA deck officer ... seems many RN are "disappointed" (naval language not allowed on this board) about what took place - they were in the right place at the right time, and were ordered to do nothing: As a combined international force, they failed to prevent what they were there for. Instead, they now find the event had been whitewashed.

Some serious questions need answering.
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Old 15-11-2009, 16:33   #118
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What differentiates this attack is it appears to have happened 50' from a Royal Naval vessel who did nothing before running away, leaving another UN French warship to discover and report the abandoned vessel 5 days later.

We may never discover the full truth about who in the Navy and Foreign Office knew what. But according to one Southampton (UK) source, the leak was not from a rating but a RFA deck officer ... seems many RN are "disappointed" (naval language not allowed on this board) about what took place - they were in the right place at the right time, and were ordered to do nothing: As a combined international force, they failed to prevent what they were there for. Instead, they now find the event had been whitewashed.

Some serious questions need answering.
Surely this is an exaggeration?..
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Old 15-11-2009, 17:11   #119
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Surely this is an exaggeration?..
Why would you think that? Political expediency trumps common sense regularly. Governments bury the truth daily. I worked for one for 28 years and personally saw the spin doctoring of the information being given out and got into some significant sh!t for trying to give out real facts.

In the story referenced there is no denial from the gov't spokesman, only the comment that they thought they did the best they could under the circumstances. Just another failure of a government to actually protect their citizens.

But I have to say I think it was a mistake to be anywhere near that area.
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Old 15-11-2009, 22:19   #120
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What differentiates this attack is it appears to have happened 50' from a Royal Naval vessel who did nothing before running away, leaving another UN French warship to discover and report the abandoned vessel 5 days later.
Soldiers don't run, politicians do. I know you were just trying to bring home a point, but it hits a nerve. Dissing the people who are following orders is not productive, diss the yahoo who gave that order. With a little research I bet you could come up with a name.
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