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Old 06-11-2009, 12:12   #91
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The UNITED NATIONS should be able to deal with this, if talk could ever achieve anything.
What else do they ever do?
Otherwise the EEC and USA should co-ordinate and show that this action will not be tolerated.
How many innocent civilians have to lose this fight before the military is prepared to defend them?
It is certainly time to blockade that port with a multinational force, based, but limited to, international waters. Marine, helicopter and special forces can then operate with some assurance of artillery, evacuation or reinforcement in support as needed.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:55   #92
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Its not as easy as one would think they are embedded within a lot of innocent people.

If only our military was a good as Hollywood makes them out to be it would be a piece of cake...all we would need is One Stallone or one Schorzinager to get the job done.

BBC NEWS | Africa | Postcard from Somali pirate capital
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Old 06-11-2009, 14:59   #93
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The UNITED NATIONS should be able to deal with this, if talk could ever achieve anything.
What else do they ever do ...
A UN intervention, against Somalian piracy, wouldn’t be a peace-keeping, nor a peace-making mission; but one of law-enforcement. This would be an external imposition of international law, on/in a sovereign state.

Would you, or folks like Ron Paul/Lou Dobbs etc. be willing to submit the USA to the rule of international law (think "one world order, states rights, etc)?
Would the citizens of any major power?
It's we, those of the powerful developed nations, who (for the most part) castrate the UN.

Oops - I see that you're from the UK.
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Old 06-11-2009, 16:03   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven View Post
The UNITED NATIONS should be able to deal with this, if talk could ever achieve anything.
What else do they ever do?
Otherwise the EEC and USA should co-ordinate and show that this action will not be tolerated.
How many innocent civilians have to lose this fight before the military is prepared to defend them?
It is certainly time to blockade that port with a multinational force, based, but limited to, international waters. Marine, helicopter and special forces can then operate with some assurance of artillery, evacuation or reinforcement in support as needed.
I believe you might find it useful to read up on the nature of the piracy there. The situation is more complex than this.

BTW are you a retired military?

b.
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Old 06-11-2009, 16:09   #95
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Barricade them. Put an AIS transponder on every "fisherman" leaving port with a boat capable of a range over 100 nm that identifies it as a Somali vessel. Track them and do fly-over's a couple of times a day. Send the gunships whenever it's signal is lost, stops forward progress or heads for other vessels.

Sure it can be stopped.

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Old 06-11-2009, 16:58   #96
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Barricade them. Put an AIS transponder on every "fisherman" leaving port with a boat capable of a range over 100 nm that identifies it as a Somali vessel. Track them and do fly-over's a couple of times a day. Send the gunships whenever it's signal is lost, stops forward progress or heads for other vessels.
Good ideas Nick.
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Old 06-11-2009, 19:51   #97
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God, Queen and England...

My recollection is that the advice to every young bride on her wedding night was to lie back and think of God, Queen and England.

Using the same approach to being captured by pirates may have the best outcome for all concerned. Eventually some deal will be done, the bad guys get a tiny fraction of their ask, the captives get to go free. Might even have lost a few kilos.

Hostages got to have a use by date.

No blood, no paper work! (Old teachers' slogan.)

The pirates know that killing hostages is very bad for business. Kill too many and a SWAT raid is going to become the preferred solution.
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Old 06-11-2009, 20:34   #98
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Using the same approach to being captured by pirates may have the best outcome for all concerned. Eventually some deal will be done, the bad guys get a tiny fraction of their ask, the captives get to go free. Might even have lost a few kilos.

Hostages got to have a use by date.

No blood, no paper work! (Old teachers' slogan.)

The pirates know that killing hostages is very bad for business. Kill too many and a SWAT raid is going to become the preferred solution.
That's all very nicely said from an arm-chair, but you forget that the hostages will be a psychiatric's wet dream for the rest of their life. I can't believe anyone would want this to just go on the way you describe it. Maybe I value people or life too much...

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Old 06-11-2009, 22:47   #99
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
A UN intervention, against Somalian piracy, wouldn’t be a peace-keeping, nor a peace-making mission; but one of law-enforcement. This would be an external imposition of international law, on/in a sovereign state.

Would you, or folks like Ron Paul/Lou Dobbs etc. be willing to submit the USA to the rule of international law (think "one world order, states rights, etc)?
Would the citizens of any major power?
It's we, those of the powerful developed nations, who (for the most part) castrate the UN.

Oops - I see that you're from the UK.


When the UN ships call in to Lebanon on 16 they identify themselves as
UN War Ship...that surprised me!
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Old 07-11-2009, 00:27   #100
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My horrible life...

Is it just me or is it that every time I do something I encounter someone who wants to traumatize me.

Or is that just life?

Surely violent death is the ultimate trauma, and reducing the chances of it happening is part of every religion.

Or maybe I should find my psychiatrist now?
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Old 07-11-2009, 00:45   #101
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Managing the mayhem...

I'm strongly in favour of managing the mayhem that is Somalia, but I don't want it to happen at the cost of anyone's life.

So going in, guns blazing, is not an option that I would consider.

My current suggestions. for what they're worth.
Identify the main pirates, their vehicles, their boats, their weapons and their houses.
Get permission from the Somali Government to take action against them.
Serve notice under Somali Law (I'm sure it exists, or if it doesn't get the Somali government to make sure it does) to the identified pirates (could be done by air drop) that their property is to be declared forfeit, but that they may defend the seizure in the Somali Courts.

Continue on with the current situation until a time comes when there are no hostages. It will happen eventually.

Then give them (say) 12 hours to evacuate, then destroy the lot in a single strike.

They may recover and go back to sea, but it's taken them 20 years to build up to this strength and while they are recovering the Somali Government would have a chance to reassert it's authority.
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Old 07-11-2009, 00:48   #102
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:00   #103
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"In the past year, Islamists who rule most of southern Somalia have stoned to death three people for adultery, including a 13-year-old girl who human rights groups said had been raped."

There go those wacky Islamists again. Let's hear from those public relations guys who go on about how Islam is a peaceful & loving religion and how the Koran says "when you kill one person, it's like killing all people" and how we shouldn't judge all Islamists by a few rotten apples. I mean, they're RUNNING THE PLACE AND YET THEY ENDORSE THE MURDER OF A 13 YEAR OLD RAPE VICTIM. Geez.

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Old 07-11-2009, 01:05   #104
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A crowd of about 300 people in Merka, south of Mogadishu, watched as Abas Hussein Abdirahman, 33, was killed by members of the Islamist group al-Shabab. A spokesman said the woman would be stoned to death after the baby is born. The child will be given to relatives.


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Old 07-11-2009, 06:21   #105
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Get permission from the Somali Government to take action against them.
Serve notice under Somali Law (I'm sure it exists, or if it doesn't get the Somali government to make sure it does) to the identified pirates (could be done by air drop) that their property is to be declared forfeit, but that they may defend the seizure in the Somali Courts.
The crux of the matter is that there has been no effective government in Somalia now for a long time. Especially so in Puntland were these guys pretty much do as they please. As with Afghanistan, reading some history of this area makes it clear that there is no simple solution, as is the case with most problems of this nature.
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