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Old 01-11-2009, 04:31   #46
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If I was contemplating a cirmumnav at this point, I think I would give it up, or go the very long way around that area, which would not be to comfortable I suspect...
I think I would aim for Oman or UAE and then truck the boat straight across the desert to somwhere like Jeddah and be done with the problem completely. How safe is the Yemen? I thought Somalia ot the idea from them?

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Old 01-11-2009, 04:51   #47
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My father told me a long time ago that good luck was usually the result of advance planning. Don't put yourself where bad luck can happen to you. (I am not talking about the expectable risks, such as weather)
Where did I read "It seemed like a good idea at the time??" OH YEAH!!--on a head stone.

I wish the captives well. phew!! $7 million huh!!
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:51   #48
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It's unfortunate what happened to these two people, but anyone that insists on sailing in known troubled waters is plain stupid.
We sailed a charter boat in The Seychelles in 2004 and the distance which we covered from Mahe to La Digue is not really that much further than the Chandlers travelled before they were taken, albeit we were heading north rather than west.

It's a beautiful cruising area and we have always planned to return one day.

I'm sure the charter companies will say that the area is still safe for chartering but if a particularly desperate pirate should decide to take a charter boat will people then say that the charterers were stupid?

I accept that such an event is extremely unlikely but, until this week, I would have thought that being taken 60nm west of the Seychelles was also extremely unlikely!

I really hope this ends happily for the Chandlers.

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Old 01-11-2009, 04:52   #49
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Q ships? Armed merchant ships?

You allow one country you will be allowing them all.

So that would then allow Iranian flagged armed merchant ships to berth in your local port.
Good point though many merchant ships already carry side arms which are bonded during port.

As for Q ships, no need - the navies are enjoying themselves blowing things out of the water at the moment. And they also shepherd ships and other craft through the more problematic areas. This has forced the pirates to the more outlying areas like the Seychelles.

The solution is on land - the need for a proper government/s to police the rogue cartels currently operating as criminal states. But military action at sea in the short term is an excellent deterrent which is showing signs of success. Also the fact pirates are being sent to the country of the hijacked ships registration is also excellent. Getting jailed in Saudi Arabia or Liberia is as great disincentives - Somalia may not be the best place to be but an overcrowded sweat box of a Mauritanian jail cell must be 100 times worse that what they currently enjoy.

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Old 01-11-2009, 06:18   #50
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The only problem is the current hostages. It's easy enough to blockade their ports so they can't get out to sea, sent in navy seals with rebreathers to put explosives under their hulls etc. But, before all that, an assault by elite forces is needed to free the current hostages.

Convoys of yachts are good targets for pirates. They can come and choose. Only when there are armed escorts with very fast boats that can intercept the pirates before they get to their target, hostage taking can be prevented.

I think the UN has already passed all the resolutions needed for decisive action.

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Old 01-11-2009, 06:53   #51
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The only problem is the current hostages.
This is exactly right! And while DOJ's solution is very creative, I don't doubt that they will soon be taking a few of their current crop of captives along on future raids. They may be doing that already.

So while it might be easy to pluck a few of the rats out of the water who've deserted their sinking vessel, the unfortunate hostages they have on board probably won't have that option and will go down with the ship.

It's the same problem that accompanies a large-scale military assault on their land bases: how many innocent hostages are you willing to sacrifice?
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:36   #52
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IMHO, this situation of taking civilian hostages, and demanding ransom, will continue to deteriorate.
WHY?, because the taking of large vessels must be reaching the stage of diminishing returns.
Navy task forces are looking after the big ships, the pirates are not able to sell the cargoes off these ships,---and what do you do with a coastline littered with ships.
These pirates (freedom fighters?) leaders have political savvy--they beat the US back, didn't they?
Don't get me wrong, I don't condone this for one second. I just think that this is what happens when greed and power benefits the ruthless few.
If you want to see how we get to this state of affairs, read the book written by Lt.Gen. Romeo Dallaire, "Shake hands with the Devil, The Failure of Humanity in Rwanda". It is a vivid and horrible picture of what happens when "our way" of thinking doesnot match "their way".
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:39   #53
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BBC report $7million ransom. UK Government say - no money to pirates. Couple now held with other hostages in Container ship at anchor.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:22   #54
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Captive British woman says pirates 'hospitable'

More ➥
Captive British woman says pirates 'hospitable' - Yahoo! News

Rachel Chandler told her brother, Stephen Collett, in a telephone call broadcast by ITV News that she is fine, they were "bearing up", and described her captors as "very hospitable.".

"They tell us that we're safe and we shouldn't worry and that if we want anything they will provide it in terms of food and water and everything like that," she said, according to a transcript. "They are very hospitable people so don't worry ... Physically we're fine, physically we're healthy."
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:19   #55
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If someone were pointing an AK-47 to my head telling me to say he is hospitable, I would say he his extremely hospitable.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:31   #56
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If someone were pointing an AK-47 to my head telling me to say he is hospitable, I would say he his extremely hospitable.
The Somalia's are doing this for purely financial reward not political gain so they will be looked after.

ete
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:57   #57
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The Somalia's are doing this for purely financial reward not political gain so they will be looked after.

ete
As long as they see that $7m coming their way.

I personally think that they won't be harmed when nothing is paid (keep them a long time until everybody forgot about them and quietly release them at that point... 5 years from now or so). These pirates aren't stupid enough to provoke an assault now that they found that just taking hostages doesn't normally provoke assaults.... except when the hostages are French. Possibly flying French colors off the stern is safer now.

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Old 01-11-2009, 11:38   #58
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It all seems clear to this Sailor.
You have a group of people causing problems on the high seas with commerce, and the right to free passage.
They won't stop.
You kill them, they stop.
I am not talking about armed merchant marines in the worlds merchant fleet.
Not talking about armed iranian ships off the coast of the USA.
Refit some ships, fill them with mercs, (because US navy can't or wont do it)
And kill all those that come out to commit piracy. Don't let any excape. That will send a right message, and as someone said, delete their resources.
As long as these shipping companies are paying them ransom, they will continue to do it and grow. That needs to stop. Declare it illegal for any company to pay ransom.

On the grand scale of things this is a small issue.
On the moral thing, its big.
But who polices this? Does the US want to get involved yet again on something that the rest of the world will look down on us and cry foul, or should it be a combined UN effort?

I say a combined UN effort, but use the Q ship idea in the short run, heavily monitored of course. And put up a geostationary satellite over that area to monitor ALL ship traffic, if won't take long to find out whats what. We have national security interests there.

Someone mentioned black hawk down. The only reason that was the debacule it was was due to the Clinton White house not allowing the soldiers there proper support.
One AC130 gunship on station would have meant a big difference.
Clean out the the riff raft. It will stop.
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Old 01-11-2009, 23:57   #59
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How do you isolate a isolated country?
What do you get when you have nothing left to lose?
Seriously, if this was a big problem for the rest of the world, it would be handled with military force, but the truth is, so far the UN, and the rest of the world stand back and let this happen.
Of course the only real way to stop it in the short term, is to bomb the **** out of them. Go in and take as many of them out as possible, including the villages and towns where they live, and base out of. That would of course mean killing woman and children, old and young, as well as combatants. And of course most have no stomach for this.
In the long run what those people need is education, clean water, food, security and a sense of purpose. I suspect that what they are doing now provide them with many of these, hence the only way to stop them is to kill them.
The islolation thing was just an idea, but I hear what you're saying about their situation.

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If I was contemplating a cirmumnav at this point, I think I would give it up, or go the very long way around that area, which would not be to comfortable I suspect...
There are other places to go.

During WW2 one other thing the allies used that were very effective were the Q boats.
These were merchant ships that were heavily armed, and when the subs surfaced to use the deck gun, where fired on by larger guns on board armed vessels. Seems that would be a good way to go. Just hire blackwater or some other mercenary firm to do it, build 4 or 6 ships like that, filled with weapons, into harms way, and let the sea take them.
My guess is within 6 months to 2 years it would be over. At a far less cost. But then knowing blackwater they would screw it up.....
I've thought about they Q boat idea too, and I think that would work.
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Old 02-11-2009, 00:02   #60
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During the First World War there were 193 Q-ships in service (1914 - 1918); resulting in 70 engagements between Q-ships and U-boats; in which
44 Q-ships were lost, vs 15 U-boats destroyed.

I'm sure we could do better against these pirates, though.

The problems would be "probable cause", and what to do with "captives". We can't have vigilantes out there, shooting up everything that moves.
The probable cause issue would be satisfied the first time they tried to hold up a Q boat.
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