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Old 31-10-2009, 14:57   #31
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Well, in Good Queen Victoria's day a frigate would be sent.
If that didn't work a Squadron would be sent.
If that didn't work we'd send an army, occupy, put new rulers in place, and tax them into poverty.
Such is progress.
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Old 31-10-2009, 14:58   #32
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They are also people, struggling in a hard land.
They ought to try growing food or practicing birth control instead of taking innocent hostages.

No mercy, hang 'em like in the old days....
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Old 31-10-2009, 16:26   #33
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Hardship is never a justification for crime. There are plenty of legitimate ways of improving ones living situation. Japan and many other nations have little or no natural resources, yet they do not resort to piracy.
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Old 31-10-2009, 16:50   #34
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People are still determined to passage through the Red Sea and I can completely understand that. It's a fantastic scenic and cultural journey to get to the Med and delightful cruising awaits there.

To go in convoy is the best option but where to assemble? Somewhere such as Oman(Salalah) would be a good start point with Aden as a final regrouping before set off through the Straits. Obviously important to keep together so speed will be determined by the slowest vessel. What happens if someone has a motor failure, would the convoy wait and protect?
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Old 31-10-2009, 17:03   #35
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A convoy could be more than one well armed vessel and probably should be. Any vessel who can not keep up could be taken into tow.
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Old 31-10-2009, 17:08   #36
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Hold on Jiffy.
Were you aware the Somali pirates were active around the Seychelle Islands because I sure wasn't.
JOHN
Only because you never looked for the info. But I believe people who sail there should have. It is all over the net.

Next thing they go to Chagos and get them cruisers there.

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Old 31-10-2009, 17:51   #37
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I guess it's hug the Yemeni coast. Maybe the US Navy / NATO / UN could get a once-every-two-weeks thing going on where they escort boats from one boat to another, doing 3 knots. If you outrun the escort, your fault. Just having a warship within visual distance would be mighty helpful.
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Old 31-10-2009, 18:49   #38
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If anyone is going through in the next 6 months I have a good bit of information that is not going on public sites but I am happy to share if someone PM's me.

We are also setting up a little email group of some of us that are going.




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Old 31-10-2009, 22:15   #39
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My apologies.

I had no reason to check out how far the Somali pirates now ranged to find targets so now knowing this I have to agree, these guys could have chosen to cruise elsewhere.

As I guess they're beginning to realise.

It was an expensive lesson. Like all others, let us hope they get out of it safe and sound.

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No apologies needed swag.
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Old 31-10-2009, 22:34   #40
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They are also people, struggling in a hard land.
Perhaps, since it would be so easy, we should solve the problems there.
Then move on to other countries where the greed of politicians force the population into crime.
Based on Black Hawk Down during the Clinton administration, helping the common folks there get rid of the war lords is a hard way to solve the problem. Giving money and aid would just land in the hands of the war lords, just like the money from stolen shipping is now. Maybe the best way to deal with them is with world wide isolation, if you could get all other countries to go along with that.
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Old 31-10-2009, 23:37   #41
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How do you isolate a isolated country?
What do you get when you have nothing left to lose?
Seriously, if this was a big problem for the rest of the world, it would be handled with military force, but the truth is, so far the UN, and the rest of the world stand back and let this happen.
Of course the only real way to stop it in the short term, is to bomb the **** out of them. Go in and take as many of them out as possible, including the villages and towns where they live, and base out of. That would of course mean killing woman and children, old and young, as well as combatants. And of course most have no stomach for this.
In the long run what those people need is education, clean water, food, security and a sense of purpose. I suspect that what they are doing now provide them with many of these, hence the only way to stop them is to kill them.

If I was contemplating a cirmumnav at this point, I think I would give it up, or go the very long way around that area, which would not be to comfortable I suspect...
There are other places to go.

During WW2 one other thing the allies used that were very effective were the Q boats.
These were merchant ships that were heavily armed, and when the subs surfaced to use the deck gun, where fired on by larger guns on board armed vessels. Seems that would be a good way to go. Just hire blackwater or some other mercenary firm to do it, build 4 or 6 ships like that, filled with weapons, into harms way, and let the sea take them.
My guess is within 6 months to 2 years it would be over. At a far less cost. But then knowing blackwater they would screw it up.....
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:35   #42
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I think the use of Q ships is the way to go and robust rules of engagement to sink all captured vessels - both those anchored off Somalia (and making it a crime to pay ransom for ships / fund terrorists)........as well as any captured vessels found at sea.

If they don't surrender don't blow 'em out of the water with one salvo , but damage at the waterline enough so she will sink. thats for ships & yachts..........and pick up the survivors from the sea (hard to hold an RPG when treading water )..........obviously not an exact science and won't be without casualties but has several benefits - removes the economic reward (no ship / crew to ransom), degrades the Pirate personnel capability / knowhow (especially deepsea) and costs the onshore financiers money in lost equipment (someone may have stolen the Pirate ship / guns - but they all have a value).

Long term the solution to Somalia is to realise that it is not a single nation state - created as an administrative conveniance in colonial times. Already it has defacto split into 3 countries, only 1 of which is a complete mess.........simply recognise the reality on the ground and you have 2 new states that could be funded to suppress the 3rd.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:17   #43
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I think the use of Q ships is the way to go ...
During the First World War there were 193 Q-ships in service (1914 - 1918); resulting in 70 engagements between Q-ships and U-boats; in which
44 Q-ships were lost, vs 15 U-boats destroyed.

I'm sure we could do better against these pirates, though.

The problems would be "probable cause", and what to do with "captives". We can't have vigilantes out there, shooting up everything that moves.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:31   #44
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The problems would be "probable cause", and what to do with "captives". We can't have vigilantes out there, shooting up everything that moves.
Probable Cause? international waters

Captives? Should be easy enoough to do a deal with a nearby African country to try and then imprison Pirates brought ashore - just a large enuf cheque.
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Old 01-11-2009, 03:41   #45
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Q ships? Armed merchant ships?

You allow one country you will be allowing them all.

So that would then allow Iranian flagged armed merchant ships to berth in your local port.
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