Hans Klaar Jailed

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

thanks for the link but it sent me to a 'main page', and i really dont want to be reading down other forums to read the same stuff that is on this forum...

if you ahve a link to a video I will try to view it.. (my laptop hates videos and youtube stuff... i always have to reboot after watching 1 or 2 vids...


not sure why...

This should fix your problem ...Hans Klaar Jailed - Wharram Builders and Friends

[Wand]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Being a commercial fisher, merchant seaman, and a sailor/cruiser I resemble your remark.

hehe very good. I used that malapropism once and was corrected by a literary figure.

For the record of course, I qualified my sweeping cultural history in a single sentence with an apologetic "to some extent". Your good self is obviously excluded, and there are even some honest people in our boat yard.

[Bergovoy]

Originally Posted by Doodles

This should fix your problem ...Hans Klaar Jailed - Wharram Builders and Friends

Thank you.. I read the messages... I didnt see a video...sorry that i am technically challenged..

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

Thank you.. I read the messages... I didnt see a video...sorry that i am technically challenged..

Another term would be "high maintenance." Just kidding .... but here you go:

building ontong java - Wharram Builders and Friends

[Bergovoy]

i understand that in all, or most legal systems there is a 'percentage' of false convictions. It happens... I would guess tehre are more folks that should be convicted that arent... this is just the bascis of the laws of large numbers... we play by percentages.. so it may not sound so bad to say that less then 1 tenth of 1 tenth is falsely convicted, it still means tens of thousands of innocent folks are incarerated...

biut the facts are the same, that means 99.99% of those convicts deserve it...

I don't know if Hans Klaar is guilty of RAPE or not

is a kinda a lame comment.. (not trying to be offensive.. please dont take it personally... several folks have said this)

no, we dont know if he is or isnt.. nor do we know if Jeffry Dahlmer is guilty, or if OJ Simpson is Not Guilty...

I wasnt there.. I didnt see it.. I didnt hear the instructions or interpretation of the specific crime that is being claimed, etc....

What i do KNOW, is that this guy was convicted and found guilty... why is it ok for evefyone else and we never question and or march and or post threads about whether or not YOU KNOW or I KNOW...

I am sure this guy is a good guy, in general.. I am sure he probably got more drunk then he wished, and she wished.. I am kinda thinking he may have been setup/targeted... and all that..

but, I am positive he was found guilty, (as reported in the article we all read)

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

biut the facts are the same, that means 99.99% of those convicts deserve it...

Come on man, where in the world did you get that number? There is no system in the world that accurate much less SA's.

No one is arguing whether or not he was found guilty. That's a fact. The question is was it a fair trail, etc.

I grew up in the Deep South of the US, and believe me there were a lot of guilty convictions of blacks that were not fair. Lots of black convicted of rape of white girls. You are naive if you thing judicial systems around the world are that fair ... its more about power, not fairness.

[Bergovoy]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Another term would be "high maintenance." Just kidding .... but here you go:

building ontong java - Wharram Builders and Friends

thanks, and so far so good.. my laptop usully freaks out over videos... those were excellent.. his boat is for sale now?

and yea, loved the pivot mechanism he designed on his rudder... very cool....

not sure how he keeps the deck from leaking like a sieve when it rains...

I would love to see some vids of that boat in some less then ideal weather... in fact.. i would like to see some vids of any boat in blue water in intermediate weather...

maybe at night when they are trying to sleep??

[Aussiesuede]

This does proffer an interesting question. If you are innocent of a crime you were accused of, and then convicted of that crime; Would you sit in jail and do the time for a crime you know you didn't commit? I personally couldn't willingly do that. I'm a self directed creature, NOT simply the property of the country I was born in to. I'm not living in a cage just because of someone else's mistake. I've no interest in being THAT good of a citizen and just take one for the team. I value my life and freedom more than I value being a "good boy" and just taking whatever get's doled my way.

[Bergovoy]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Come on man, where in the world did you get that number? There is no system in the world that accurate much less SA's.

No one is arguing whether or not he was found guilty. That's a fact. The question is was it a fair trail, etc.

I grew up in the Deep South of the US, and believe me there were a lot of guilty convictions of blacks that were not fair. Lots of black convicted of rape of white girls. You are naive if you thing judicial systems around the world are that fair ... its more about power, not fairness.

if youwant to say that the numbers are innacurate.. and yes they are.. I have no clue as the real numbers...

would you claim to have us believe that the numbers are closer to 50-50? cause my point is that the majority of people deserve to be in jail, and a very , very small percentage of folks are wrongly convicted...

at what point is NOT acceptable...do you think if any system had a 25% of wrongful convictions, that the people will tolerate it? 35, 45???

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

if youwant to say that the numbers are innacurate.. and yes they are.. I have no clue as the real numbers...

would you claim to have us believe that the numbers are closer to 50-50? cause my point is that the majority of people deserve to be in jail, and a very , very small percentage of folks are wrongly convicted...

at what point is NOT acceptable...do you think if any system had a 25% of wrongful convictions, that the people will tolerate it? 35, 45???

That a fine attitude Bergovoy until you are the one wrongly convicted. I don't know the number, but I know almost every day in the US you read about another case where DNA testing has proved an innocent person was convicted. **** happens, and it happens a lot more than we like to admit.

This is getting way off the point so I'll drop it, but Aussieseude made a great point above which maybe we all should consider. What would you do?

[Bergovoy]

knowing that i couldnt outrun authority, i would ahve no choice but to sit in jail and learn and hope that others wore working with me to exhonerate myself...

if i have an oppertunity to run, i would then look at other issues... if i had a family, and i wanted to teach my children to respect society, then i would turn myself in and show him that justiice will eventually work...

If i had nothing and no body, and no other responsibiltiy to society, then i would run..., all while working to 'prove' my innocence..

It sucks, but as you mentioned the many of cases that are over turned, why not ask the folks that paid the time, 'wrongly', the question?

Ultimately, you are part of society, and will obey to the rules and laws.. or you dont...

you win some, you lose some... and if you read any of my originaly threads, then you know i am giving up on society and will fight tooth and nail against authority that tellme me ai am WRONG... I am not wrong. I will not and have not dont anything intentional to harm anyone, (well there was this one time when i was 22 and living in Hawaii.. but.. ahem)

people have agendas, and they are always self serving... they do stuff for themselves.. the one or two times they do 'charitable' things is the unusual case....

that is how we are trained and raised...it is part of our dna...I teneded to gice more then i could afford, both physically and emotionally...now it my turn to watch out for myself...

anways...tmi

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by GordMay

MD might say some, as well, don't you think?

Yeah... mixed feelings on this one.

Some/many MDs are great, particularly the one stitching me up at the time

Unfortunately, many MDs are treated as gods, and have no trouble accepting the role with a tad too much enthusiasm.

In many instances AND THIS IS A MAJOR GENERALISATION, they develop an arrogance whereby they truly believe they know and understand more than everyone about everything, even if it wasn't in The Lancet.

It also means their opinions are given more weight than is justified, sometimes to the detriment of the issue.

I think I feel the water temperature rising as I type

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by Aussiesuede

This does proffer an interesting question. If you are innocent of a crime you were accused of, and then convicted of that crime; Would you sit in jail and do the time for a crime you know you didn't commit? I personally couldn't willingly do that. I'm a self directed creature, NOT simply the property of the country I was born in to. I'm not living in a cage just because of someone else's mistake. I've no interest in being THAT good of a citizen and just take one for the team. I value my life and freedom more than I value being a "good boy" and just taking whatever get's doled my way.

+1. Very well said indeed.

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Bergovoy

What i do KNOW, is that this guy was convicted and found guilty... why is it ok for evefyone else and we never question and or march and or post threads about whether or not YOU KNOW or I KNOW...

I am sure this guy is a good guy, in general.

I hear Eva Braun thought Adolph was a good guy, in general.

[Khagan1227]

Originally Posted by Aussiesuede

This does proffer an interesting question. If you are innocent of a crime you were accused of, and then convicted of that crime; Would you sit in jail and do the time for a crime you know you didn't commit? I personally couldn't willingly do that. I'm a self directed creature, NOT simply the property of the country I was born in to. I'm not living in a cage just because of someone else's mistake. I've no interest in being THAT good of a citizen and just take one for the team. I value my life and freedom more than I value being a "good boy" and just taking whatever get's doled my way.

I would agree, but this is not the only woman who has said Klaar had a problem with the word no and in many cases, where there is smoke there is fire.

What I find interesting is that a lot of people on here paint Klaar as the victim, blaming the two South African courts, the media, his counsel, the New Zealand courts; have said one woman was a gold digger (yet Klaar was not known to have any money) and she set him up, the other woman has come forward only to sell books, and now he ran because he was unjustly convicted. All the while knowing that Klaar cheated on his family, left them behind to fend for themselves when he took off, was a KNOWN smuggler and choose not to continue his appeals in TWO different countries, one against the conviction and the other against his extradition. I also (again) note that his own country did not protest the conviction as wrong, the sentence as unfair or assist him in any way during his trials or his extradition.

But he is a good bloke.