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Old 08-02-2011, 21:05   #31
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I thought it was six years.... serve 3 and the other 3 suspended subject to good behavior on release...
Mind.... a white guy in an SA jail.... think I'd done the same... just not been arrogant enough to shoot my mouth off over the web and let everyone know my movements...
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Old 08-02-2011, 22:03   #32
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The emergence of production boats and the leisure sailing industry has markedly altered the public image of boating. Many see it as a "nice" activity in "nice" boats among "nice" people.

But until the recent past, the boating sector was a refuge for scoundrels and criminals and the uneducated and the unskilled and a haven for those on the run. The fishing industry and the commercial maritime industry still reflect that past to some extent. So do many of the remaining traditional boatyards and clubs - ours, for example.

My suggestion to Pelagic is that a read of the book scorned above might prove beneficial; after all, there's no point in only reading viewpoints we agree with.
Having worked in the towing and fishing industry plus many years cruising SE Asia, I understand rough justice and the opportunism of a poorly policed area.

But scoundrels inhabit all walks of life and to sensationalize the dark side of cruising, is to me a cheap shot …..unless her intent is to write pulp fiction.
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Old 08-02-2011, 23:04   #33
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Interesting how a couple posters have declared how they aren't in a position to know or judge but then proceed to do just that.
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Old 08-02-2011, 23:31   #34
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Having worked in the towing and fishing industry plus many years cruising SE Asia, I understand rough justice and the opportunism of a poorly policed area.

But scoundrels inhabit all walks of life and to sensationalize the dark side of cruising, is to me a cheap shot …..unless her intent is to write pulp fiction.

MA in Creative Writing? Kinda says it all don't you think?
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Old 08-02-2011, 23:56   #35
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I don’t know Mr. Klaar, but from what I see he is serving a sentence for a crime he was legally convicted of committing.
Some 'legal systems' you'd be better off running from.

I don't know Hans Klaar either, but I have some experience of 'Justice' in South Africa... at best it was no more than the title before the judge's name!

I did earn the dubious distinction of having "...a cavalier attitude that is difficult to reconcile with society's norms..." Fortunately, attitude is not a criminal offence, even in S. Africa.

Seems to fit right in here in Aus

There's a certain Mr. Mandela who might also feel S. Africa's ideas of justice could use a bit of fine tuning.
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:21   #36
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whether or not s. africa's legal system needs tweaking or not, isnt the issue...

Everyone in teh US would admit ours needs major tweaking... and from what i read, other countries need tweaking also.

but, it is reasonable to state or admit that this person is guilty of the crime he was tried on... it isnt saying whether we believe he did or didnt do it.. but that he was found guilty...

if it is wrong, i hope he has sufficient resources to fight it all the way to world court if necessary...and if he can use that system and the media to his advnatage mahbe he will get more resources and or major support in defense.

but running/fleeing is not a good thing.. nor is the cheating on his family...

the reporter was about as biased as all reporters i have read, including msnbc, foxnews, etc...

i wish his family strength during this period and hope they are able to survive without him now..
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:52   #37
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if it is wrong, i hope he has sufficient resources to fight it all the way to world court if necessary...and if he can use that system and the media to his advnatage mahbe he will get more resources and or major support in defense.
Don't believe there is a world court in these matters.
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:03   #38
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:56   #39
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Having worked in the towing and fishing industry plus many years cruising SE Asia, I understand rough justice and the opportunism of a poorly policed area.

But scoundrels inhabit all walks of life and to sensationalize the dark side of cruising, is to me a cheap shot …..unless her intent is to write pulp fiction.
Okay, you've been around and understand that there is a dark side to the cruising life. That's good. But I don't know why you'd describe an attempt to document it as "sensationalizing".

Writing about the dark side of anything is a perfectly sound and time-honoured journalistic endeavour. There is a stream of published work on the dark side of politics, business, law enforcement, sport...you name it. And much of it has served to improve practices within the industry or sector investigated.

I can think of any number of examples and I'm sure you can too, with the most notable example in the USA in recent decades being 'All the President's Men'. That was an exposure of the seedy side of an administration but surely it wasn't "sensationalizing"?

The truth is that expositions of the dark side of anything sell well because everybody wants to know what really goes on behind the glossy cover. And if someone can write an informed account of the dark side of cruising, then surely that will be of significant interest to all cruisers.

And looking the other way never made anything go away.
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Old 09-02-2011, 06:16   #40
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Either way.... I bet a lot of folks here will buy the book after all this speculation just to acclaim/refute the statements...
Apart from me....
I'll wait till it hits the book swap shelves... don't need to buy second hand sailing adventures... better things for the money...
Leave that to the 'Armchair Brigade'
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:06   #41
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Quote:
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... But scoundrels inhabit all walks of life and to sensationalize the dark side of cruising, is to me a cheap shot …..unless her intent is to write pulp fiction.
MA in Creative Writing? Kinda says it all don't you think?
MD might say some, as well, don't you think?
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:10   #42
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Laws and morality differ in different countries, In some just being caught in the presence of an unchaperoned woman can be grounds for rape. Applying western morality to third world countries can be a recipe for disaster. No one likes a hot shot foreigner coming in and takin' advantage of the local women.
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:21   #43
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Quote:
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The emergence of production boats and the leisure sailing industry has markedly altered the public image of boating. Many see it as a "nice" activity in "nice" boats among "nice" people.

But until the recent past, the boating sector was a refuge for scoundrels and criminals and the uneducated and the unskilled and a haven for those on the run. The fishing industry and the commercial maritime industry still reflect that past to some extent. So do many of the remaining traditional boatyards and clubs - ours, for example.

Being a commercial fisher, merchant seaman, and a sailor/cruiser I resemble your remark. There are many of us whom are not content to sponsor the status quo. Those are the people who get branded as outlaws, witches, seditious etc... and the last point of refuge for those who think for themselves is at sea. In the 1930s if you ran booze you were an outlaw in the United States, and if your name was Joe Kennedy, your sons got elected to high political office. Lest someone get the wrong ideas, I would never condone rape, or coercion to a sexual liaison.
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:39   #44
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South Africa holds the sad record of having highest incidence of rape in world..

Sexual violence in South Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:45   #45
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Some 'legal systems' you'd be better off running from.
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I don't know Hans Klaar either, but I have some experience of 'Justice' in South Africa... at best it was no more than the title before the judge's name!


In the U.S. there are some positions as judges that do NOT require a law degree, only to be elected.

I have spent most of my adult life visiting many different third world countries and I'm well aware some of their legal systems are lacking. To prevent an unintended encounter with those legal or law enforcement agencies, I made sure I never put myself in a position to be detained.

Mr. Klaar if innocent, failed to protect himself or his interests, indeed he further compounded his troubles by taking leg bail. It looks like the South Africans are going to impose the entire six year prison sentence for his actions.

To Boatman61: From what I’ve read from you, I doubt you’d put yourself in the position to have to worry about the legal systems of the countries you visit.
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