Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2011, 14:17   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
Cool story. Thanks for sharing it.
__________________

__________________
kenny chaos is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 14:23   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Boat: Nassau 42 SV Ceol Mor
Posts: 789
How great a sailor he is, how wonderful his family is, how many lives they've touched has nothing to do with whether he is a rapist or not.

I've not read the court documents so I do not feel "fit" to judge one way or the other. I do find it appalling that because people have known his family or because he is a sailor people automatically assume the victim is lying.
__________________

__________________
S/V Ceol Mor
42 Nassau Undergoing refit in Kemah, Tx
Our little blog has moved: www.theceolmors.blogspot.com
Mimsy is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 14:31   #18
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,209
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
How great a sailor he is, how wonderful his family is, how many lives they've touched has nothing to do with whether he is a rapist or not.

I've not read the court documents so I do not feel "fit" to judge one way or the other. I do find it appalling that because people have known his family or because he is a sailor some people automatically assume the victim is lying.

Hoi n de Polloi's
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 14:36   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Boat: Nassau 42 SV Ceol Mor
Posts: 789
I stand corrected. I should have, in fact used "some". Thank you Boatman.
I am really disturbed that SOME people say "she rowed out to the mooring, then cried rape the next day". What part of going to a mooring implies consent to sex? What about wearing a bikini, is that giving consent? Is a one piece suit coverage enough to imply that I'm not looking for action?

Let me go put on my burkha lest someone think I am offering myself up.
__________________
S/V Ceol Mor
42 Nassau Undergoing refit in Kemah, Tx
Our little blog has moved: www.theceolmors.blogspot.com
Mimsy is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 14:45   #20
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,209
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
Let me go put on my burkha lest someone think I am offering myself up.
Steady on there Mimsy..... I was raised in Pakistan.... I may think your flirting...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 17:04   #21
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by idpnd View Post
Two poorly written "cut and paste" jobs. Must be a shortage of journalist in SA.
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 17:14   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Are We All Pirates?

Apologies for my absence guys I should have know that British Telecoms promised efficiency in handling the transfer of my phone and internet connections to the new place wouldn’t turn into reality. End result was some 36 hours disconnected. It sound pathetic but it caused me a real problem because it was unplanned and although the Gleda Project can survive for a few days without updates my client work needs to be done and as luck would have it I had one of my busiest weeks yet scheduled for this week. So now I’m playing catch-up big time.
Never mind it’s all for the good and things are settling down to the point that next week I might even be able to ease back into some boatbuilding!
Now on to something that’s been bugging me this last few days
My posts about Hans Klaar both on this site and the Wharram Builders and Friends Forum continue to provoke responses. I confess to a bit of concern that things were straying too far into details of the case against Hans and that’s potentially dangerous territory that could have all sorts of legal and moral ramifications I don’t want to get embroiled in. My original post simply intended to pass on the sad news that a well respected guy active in our community had been jailed and although I knew that Hans was well known I did not anticipate so many positive comments. I’m entirely happy however that expressions of gratitude for past favours and attempts to help ease his time in prison are entirely justified and I’ll continue to help where I can. I would ask however that my readers refrain from making reference to the criminal proceedings, court case or anything else that could fit under the heading ‘legal matters’.
That said I do think that a wider issue has arisen here which combined with the other information passed from people closely involved with the case would seem to indicate that there is more to this than meets the eye. Martinique Stilwell, the lady who wrote the South African newspaper article I referenced, posted on the Wharram Builders forum to the effect that she’d attempted to keep the article balanced, however she finished with the comment, and I quote “Being a great sailor does not exempt Hans Klaar from following the law, or give him an excuse to hurt women”. Personally I find the suggestion that any of the members of the Wharram Friends Forum or readers of this blog would condone such actions offensive and this comment seemed completely unjustified. Several people who know Hans well and were involved more closely in the case have now posted comments to the effect that Hans may have been a victim of a miscarriage of justice and this information combined with some of the text of Ms Stilwells article do seem to point to a larger agenda. Jacques Pierret picked up on a sentence that I also noted but didn’t think too much of at the time, which stated
“Lawlessness attracts a certain cachet among a sector of the sailing community ‚ those who escape for a life at sea often do so to be free and not necessarily to be better people”
That’s a pretty sweeping statement to make. ‘Those who escape for a life at sea OFTEN do so to be free and not necessarily to be better people”. That sounds like a feeble attempt to play to the fears of ‘normal’ 9-5 home owning, consumers who could never understand that the opposite is true. Speaking for myself, yes, I believe that an escape to sea will bring me the FREEDOM but does that freedom automatically mean that I will become some sort of pirate with a criminal mind and the morals of a sewer rat? Ridiculous. There is overwhelming evidence that the vast majority of people who seek what we seek are far better people for it and are considerably more tolerant, helpful and considerate than the vast majority of city dwelling drones who, and call me cynical if you will, may well be the prime audience for Ms Stilwells new book ‘Thinking Up a Hurricane’, a memoir of her years at sea as a child. I also noted that she has an MA in creative writing, just saying.
Lastly a reminder that there is a dedicated e-mail address for messages of support and reading material for Hans. Anything sent to that address will be printed off and taken in by visitors.
Help4Hans@gmail.com
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 19:32   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
"Violence and crime are the dark, piratical side of ocean sailing. Sailors have altercations that are sometimes settled brutally. Yachts are stolen and men and women fall overboard, or are shot and buried on desert islands...."

If this is the standard of her writing... I think i will pass...
The emergence of production boats and the leisure sailing industry has markedly altered the public image of boating. Many see it as a "nice" activity in "nice" boats among "nice" people.

But until the recent past, the boating sector was a refuge for scoundrels and criminals and the uneducated and the unskilled and a haven for those on the run. The fishing industry and the commercial maritime industry still reflect that past to some extent. So do many of the remaining traditional boatyards and clubs - ours, for example.

My suggestion to Pelagic is that a read of the book scorned above might prove beneficial; after all, there's no point in only reading viewpoints we agree with.
__________________
Wand is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 19:49   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
I've been called a rogue. I hope that counts?
__________________
kenny chaos is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 20:15   #25
Registered User
 
Boomp's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Morgan OI 30' Itinerant
Posts: 254
If he really treated woman the way the article reads, then he is where he needs to be and the inmates will dole out their own justice.
__________________
A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, he said, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. But we do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again.

J.M.Synge, in The Aran Islands
Boomp is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 20:29   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
in the 30 years i knew him he never drank alcohol,never saw him strike another person,spoke 5 languages fluently,cared deeply about the enviroment,was all ways charismatic and generally allways had a devoted girlfriend......

don't belive every thing you read in the media...........

rough diamond yes,but a gentle one.....
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 20:34   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
atoll-
I feel for ya man but this is the inter-net, home of the all knowing/judging.
Most wish they could've lived a life like his but will never come close to having the grapefruits.
__________________
kenny chaos is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 20:51   #28
Registered User
 
Khagan1227's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Boat: In the hunt again, unknown
Posts: 1,330
Let me see if I understand this:

1. Man has a few drinks with woman, rows her out to his boat to show her the boat.
2. Man is accused of rape and convicted by a South African court.
3. He appeals to the South African High Court, conviction is upheld, but the sentence is reduced to 3 years and he is given 72 hours to report to prison.
4. He then boards his boat (leaving his wife and kids behind) and makes his escape.
5. He is captured by the New Zealand authorities and held for extradition.
6. His case is heard by the Kiwis Courts (is this too a Mickey Mouse court in a kangaroo country?), who finds the conviction valid and he is to be sent back to South Africa.
7. He appeals the decision, but then later abandons the appeal.
8. He is sent back to South Africa to serve his sentence.

I donít know Mr. Klaar, but from what I see he is serving a sentence for a crime he was legally convicted of committing. Klaarís run from justice, in itself is unlawful, and the fact he admitted to sexual relations with a woman other than his wife, doesnít reflect well on his judgment or personal character. I donít hear the Swiss demanding his release, nor protesting his trial, or nor did they try to block his extradition.

Khagan1227 is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 21:00   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
i belive the sentence was suspended for 3 years,tantamont to the police asking a drunk driver to follow them back to the police station in the car so they can charge him................
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 08-02-2011, 21:04   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khagan1227 View Post
Let me see if I understand this:



I donít know Mr. Klaar, but from what I see he is serving a sentence for a crime he was legally convicted of committing.


Apparently, that is the question.
More popcorn?
__________________

__________________
kenny chaos is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hans Christian Christina 40 aquatus Monohull Sailboats 4 26-11-2009 12:51
Hans Christian Manufacturer vidarsig Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 12-11-2009 04:28
Hans Christian Sailboats Charli3 Monohull Sailboats 7 06-11-2009 20:51
Boatbuilder Jailed Steve Thompson Off Topic Forum 0 10-07-2009 23:40
Hans Christian Yachts? AussieDreamers Monohull Sailboats 4 05-01-2007 20:03



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.