German killed this morning, St Vincent

[monte]

One of the problems on the islands is that a lot of locals want to leave for more opportunities in the USA. If they're convicted of a crime in the US they are deported home. This drastically increases the % of crime and criminals per population. Crimes aren't just against cruisers. St Lucia and St Vincent are probably the worst islands in the eastern Caribbean, but a guy was even boarded and attacked off St Kitts recently.

[Palarran]

What would your ranking be for the top 5 safest?

St. Barts
Cayman's
BVI's
Turks & Caicos
Bahamas

[neilpride]

St Barth
Turk and Caicos,
Bahamas.
Cayman's
BVI

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Palarran

What would your ranking be for the top 5 safest?

St. Barts
Cayman's
BVI's
Turks & Caicos
Bahamas

Cuba and the ABC's thou I haven't been anywhere else in the Caribe.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Back to the thread topic

It would be interesting to think about how much violence against cruisers happens in the Caribbean versus the rest of the world. I'm starting my 5th year in the Mediterranean and so far haven't hear of one theft from a boat let alone assault. The Atlantic coast up to Norway and the Baltic areas - never heard anything there. Canada and United States, lots of crime on land and some theft, but not too many assaults AFAIK. Pacific Mexico - theft and maybe a few assaults? Pacific Islands - not much that I've ever heard of.

It really seems that the Caribbean is the place for crime against boaters. From our own experiences we don't feel really safe there. When I'm at beach bars it's all Ya Mon, but in the back alleys there are plenty of unsavory characters who would take an opportunity to rob if it came along. I can understand the attraction to this area for a season, maybe two, but spending years or retirement there - no thanks.

Just my opinion.

Maybe not theft of the boat but in some cases theft of the dinghy that is left on the water. Maybe because the thefts are not many almost nobody pulls the dinghy up or even secure it to the boat other than with a rope.

When I left the dinghy on the water I take the engine up (anyway most of the time I don't use the tender engine so it is not there) and use a steel cable to fix it to the boat, the same thing when I go ashore but I never saw nobody doing that.

Guess I was traumatized many years ago when I had a motorcycle stolen, at least is what my wife tells me. She is always complaining about me not doing like everybody else. Maybe she is right.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Polux is right about the Med and Neil Pride is right about the Caribbean, well maybe right is not the best word but I'd agree there is generally more expensive boats in the Med and cheaper ones in the Caribbean.

Not only regarding being newer but also about size and therefore more expensive. 14 years ago when I had a 36ft boat I find out that most on the med cruised with bigger boats.

No I cruise with a 41ft boat and the size of the average boats have increased a lot and I continue to have a smaller boat than the average. Not that I intend to have a bigger one but the fact is that even couples cruise normally bigger boats.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Paul L

What possible info do you have that makes you draw that conclusion. Or does it make you feel safer if you blame the victim? To me it sounds like the many other boardings for robbery with violence included. Not sure why cruisers do St Vincent, or for that matter St Lucia. There's plenty of other places to go.

nothing was stolen, i guess.

[MarkJ]

Sorry, been busy with the Heineken Regatta so only caught this news at the bar last night.
I haven't read/heard the detail of the incident yet so I have only 1 bit of advice:




Of course most people on this forum poo-poo the idea of locking the front door at anchor, and many don't think mine is at all secure. Whatever!

Mark

[Idylles15.5]

Originally Posted by Polux

No, you did not look at the boats on internet and did not read my post. I was replying to this:

First I never pretended to show anybody the way to go or the boat more suited to each one (and certainly mine is not suited for most) but I assume you are talking about the boats most use to cross the Atlantic, modern mass main market boats but your powers of observation are very limited since I only talk about new models and regarding those there are not a single one that has a sugar scoop much less an open transom.

On most of them, if they have their bath platform locked from inside (not dificult to do) you will not be able to access the boat from the transom leaving only the anchor trick that is not easy to perform and that certainly will make noise and motion on the boat.

Since you did not look at the boats on internet, as I sugest, I will show it to you. Very few will cross the Atlantic on a 30ft modern boat so let's look at mass production main market boats between 40 and 43ft, current models.

Bavaria 41:

Jeanneau 409:

Hanse 415:

Oceanis 41:


This is the sugar scoop of the 311, realy near the water and it is why you can access the boat from there:


Only performance cruisers have open transoms but as you will see they are at the height of the cockpit deck and the height of the sugar scoop of the 311 is 1/4 of the height of the open transom on those boats:
Grand Soleil 43:

Solaris 42:

and my own boat, the Comet 41s:

I am a good swimmer, also a spear diver since kid and I know that it is not possible to go up that transom without a ladder, not even close, believe me, I have tried...and you don't reach the rudder with your feet at least in a way it can be of any use.

Well , I have there a rope hanging that I can reach and if I forgot about the stairs (it had already happen even if my wife was aboard), if I make some support for the feet with a knot, then I can get on the boat, but only that way. I put the rope up at night.

You are no MacGyver thats for sure. I have taken off my wet T shirt, whipped it around a stanchion and pulled myself and I'm 48 185lbs. You kidden yourself if think a motivated thief can't get on any boat they want.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Of course most people on this forum poo-poo the idea of locking the front door at anchor,

Seriously? I never sleep with the front door open - not on land, not on the water. No matter where I am ...

I posted the one I'm having made somewhere, but too lazy to figure out in what topic

[neilpride]

Yep, but keep in mind Paolo is a med sailor , not many med thief swimers there,,those shiny ARC boats are a piece of cake for a thief....

[arsenelupiga]

OOPS sorry wrong thread !


I was MOB, it was on mono in 25 kn wind ans 2-3 m waves.

Crew luckily has not lost line of sight for more than 5 min however coast was visible so orientation for them was coast.

They were unable to drop mainsail. Boat doing 2 kn or so. I managed to pull myself to the boat however unable to climb it. No steps and me exhausted.

At my weight 110kg, crew tried to help but could not. So, I gave up and repeat the whole process 3x.

I guess, the fourth time I managed to climb with substantial help from crew as I was already losing power.

I presume could swim to shore about 5 nm, however would not be fun with all these great whites & co around. Current does not help either. No aids of any sort as it was old racy boat.

So... pulling yourself in 4 KN : I do not think so !

[Simonsays]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Easy Peasy Polux..
Grab the scoop.. pull up then drop ones body till arms fully stretched, head submerged, then pull up combined with a strong scissor kick will lift you to hip height.. and your on
This Beneteau 331 I owned, I never Needed a ladder.. but being lazy I used it.
I'm 6ft1" tall, fittish and 70kilos.. these kids are stronger, faster and fitter than me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7FZL3Conqg

can't get that picture out of my head now, thanks Phil!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Idylles15.5

You are no MacGyver thats for sure. I have taken off my wet T shirt, whipped it around a stanchion and pulled myself and I'm 48 185lbs. You kidden yourself if think a motivated thief can't get on any boat they want.

No, I am no MacGyver but neither were those guys that died in the water trying to board their boat and I am quite sure they were motivated. Never said that it was not possible only that it would be more easier by the chain than by the transom.

[rognvald]

The real question cruisers need to ask is what change has occurred in the last 10 years, or more, where there has been an increase in violent crimes in a previously peaceful area? The second question is "why would a cruiser choose to cruise in an area with a greater potential for violence than one that is safer? There are always calculated risks in life but we are responsible for our choices and to those with whom we cruise. I have advocated on this site for years that cruisers should vote with their dollars and visit areas that are cruiser-friendly and safe. Some areas have been mentioned previously in this post and perhaps a list provided by Forum members of places they've visited would be helpful to both new cruisers and old. Where have you cruised that you would recommend to others? Good luck and safe sailing.