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Old 05-03-2016, 19:05   #46
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

All those boats are very easy to get onto from the water, with just a length of rope.
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Old 05-03-2016, 23:24   #47
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
There was a guy that put tacks on deck to surprise boarders.
That would be Joshua Slocum, I believe he mentions doing this while sailing through the strait of Magellan.

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Old 06-03-2016, 04:42   #48
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pirate Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

Morning Polux..
Firstly.. my apologies for the wisecrack about conversation's with Portuguese.. what gets a laugh face to face does not come over so well in cold print.. hence I wiped it and said I'd board your boat.. I may like teasing but insult is/was not my intent.. if you did not read it.. ' I did not say a word....'
As to boats.. I confess some are harder than others but they can all be boarded by a fit swimmer.
If I was on the beach at say Marigot and looked across the bay there's usually at least 50boats anchored there.. 70% could be boarded from the stern.. moulded and add on swim platforms.. steel, plastic, wood, ali..
30% would be harder but not impossible..
Your boat would likely not be approached as there's easier meat out there.. however.. if you were one of a handful the odds change fairly quickly.
These kids are not stupid.. they watch and learn.. dinghy parks and routes are habitual for cruisers.. they observe amount on board from the beach.. times of coming and going, a tender shouts that your not aboard when parked at a jetty.
Boats of 50ft and over will rarely get hit as they're further out and larger crews who rarely go ashore all at once.. nightfall in the tropics is a steady thing.. no 'good visibility till 2200hrs like up N so lots of choice while folks dine ashore and maybe 'Hang out with new friends'.
Its all very well showing boats you consider 'Unboardable' however the Reality is where this is happening most all these boats your talking about will be tied up in a marina.. they may anchor overnight while waiting to enter the next morning but.. its the smaller, older and cheaper boats that are on the hook for long periods.. some for weeks.
Your blanket statement was just plain wrong..
Another thing these guys love is these lovingly named tenders that scream
Empty Boat on the Hook called... Imadork.
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:50   #49
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

If a Somali can board a freighter from a runabout.....?
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:52   #50
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

Wow It is very much like Key West FL.
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:14   #51
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Morning Polux..
Firstly.. my apologies for the wisecrack about conversation's with Portuguese.. what gets a laugh face to face does not come over so well in cold print.. hence I wiped it and said I'd board your boat.. I may like teasing but insult is/was not my intent.. if you did not read it.. ' I did not say a word....'
As to boats.. I confess some are harder than others but they can all be boarded by a fit swimmer.
If I was on the beach at say Marigot and looked across the bay there's usually at least 50boats anchored there.. 70% could be boarded from the stern.. moulded and add on swim platforms.. steel, plastic, wood, ali..
30% would be harder but not impossible..
Your boat would likely not be approached as there's easier meat out there.. however.. if you were one of a handful the odds change fairly quickly.
These kids are not stupid.. they watch and learn.. dinghy parks and routes are habitual for cruisers.. they observe amount on board from the beach.. times of coming and going, a tender shouts that your not aboard when parked at a jetty.
....
Its all very well showing boats you consider 'Unboardable' however the Reality is where this is happening most all these boats your talking about will be tied up in a marina.. they may anchor overnight while waiting to enter the next morning but.. its the smaller, older and cheaper boats that are on the hook for long periods.. some for weeks.
Your blanket statement was just plain wrong..
Another thing these guys love is these lovingly named tenders that scream
Empty Boat on the Hook called... Imadork.
I did not felt insulted but I would like to know what was my blanket statement that was plain wrong?

I did not post boats that I think were unabordable but ALL main mass production main market boats on the market with 40/41ft.

I have done so because you implied that those boats had transoms that were easy to be accessed by a swimmer, namely by you, a thing I did not agree.

I did not said that they were not unabordable but that a swimmer would not be able to go inside by the stern. Of course if the swimmer is not only one but a group with ropes any boat can be abordable but then it is just a lot more easier doing so by the anchor chain.

Anyway those boats in what regards to be easy targets are more difficult than a boat with a sugar scoop that can be easily bordable by a swimmer by the transom.

That is all that i said or meant.

Many cruisers leave the dinghies on the water and that makes certainly any boat an easy target and most cruisers when they go ashore leave dinghies on places were they can be easily stolen or used to reach the yacht.

Safety is very relative on a lonely yacht on an isolated cove and even if some factors can contribute to make it a less easy target the safety is mostly dependent of not having some locals strongly willed on robing it.

So, what is wrong with my statement?
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Old 06-03-2016, 06:01   #52
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pirate Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I did not felt insulted but I would like to know what was my blanket statement that was plain wrong?

I did not post boats that I think were unabordable but ALL main mass production main market boats on the market with 40/41ft.

I have done so because you implied that those boats had transoms that were easy to be accessed by a swimmer, namely by you, a thing I did not agree.

I did not said that they were not unabordable but that a swimmer would not be able to go inside by the stern. Of course if the swimmer is not only one but a group with ropes any boat can be abordable but then it is just a lot more easier doing so by the anchor chain.

Anyway those boats in what regards to be easy targets are more difficult than a boat with a sugar scoop that can be easily bordable by a swimmer by the transom.

That is all that i said or meant.

Many cruisers leave the dinghies on the water and that makes certainly any boat an easy target and most cruisers when they go ashore leave dinghies on places were they can be easily stolen or used to reach the yacht.

Safety is very relative on a lonely yacht on an isolated cove and even if some factors can contribute to make it a less easy target the safety is mostly dependent of not having some locals strongly willed on robing it.

So, what is wrong with my statement?

Someone that will want to robe a yacht would not do so swimming but will be using a small boat.

Anyway I don't understand how can yachts be robbed by swimmers if some basic preventive measures are taken like taken the stairs out of water and put the dinghy aboard.

It is very difficult to come aboard a yacht swimming and the only way is by the anchor chain but it is needed a very fit guy to do that. I can't and most will not be able to do that. Anyway the movements on the boat that implies would alert the crew and don't seem to me difficult to trough back on the water somebody that would be attempting that.

You are wrong about the access on a boat with open transom. The open transom is not at water level and you would not manage to go up the same way you would not manage to go up a marina pontoon if you fell on the water, unless there is a stair.


Another mistaken assumption is the type of boats that do the Transatlantic.. the reality is ARC boats are a minority.. look around anchorages in the Caribe and you will see boats from 22ft to 40ft with flags of various EU countries outnumbering the 'ARC Class' of boats.
There's more poor sailors than rich ones and your level of boat puts you in the expensive toy bracket.. way out of reach of at least 70% of cruisers..
Remember.. CF is a somewhat elite site with many members owning boats $200K plus.. big Oysters, Lagoons, Sundeers etc..
Then there's Boat Alexandra and myself try to drag it down to our level..
But.. joking aside.. the reality is most boat owners on here have boats that cost from 1euro to $50K
Hence.. 'Blanket Statement'
kinda like the old Charles Atlas advert.. do people kick sand in your face.? you can look like this in 6mths..

I used that damn thing for 6yrs and no difference
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:12   #53
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

This is a very depressing story.

In our eleven year circumnavigation, we were boarded only once at night in a harbor, and that was in Grenada. There were muddy foot prints in the cockpit that we noticed in the morning. We always locked the companionway door at night so nobody could get inside while we were sleeping.
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:29   #54
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

Unless your vessel has an 8' or higher completely smooth freeboard (and even then your anchor chain is still reachable) it will be no problem to climb aboard.

Easy? Maybe not. Doable? Definitely. My friends and I are climbers and take much joy in climbing aboard boats in unusual ways.

Have yet to meet one we couldn't summit.


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Old 06-03-2016, 07:49   #55
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pirate Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_alpine View Post
Unless your vessel has an 8' or higher completely smooth freeboard (and even then your anchor chain is still reachable) it will be no problem to climb aboard.

Easy? Maybe not. Doable? Definitely. My friends and I are climbers and take much joy in climbing aboard boats in unusual ways.

Have yet to meet one we couldn't summit.


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Old 06-03-2016, 08:27   #56
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

Someone that will want to robe a yacht would not do so swimming but will be using a small boat.

Anyway I don't understand how can yachts be robbed by swimmers if some basic preventive measures are taken like taken the stairs out of water and put the dinghy aboard.

It is very difficult to come aboard a yacht swimming and the only way is by the anchor chain but it is needed a very fit guy to do that. I can't and most will not be able to do that. Anyway the movements on the boat that implies would alert the crew and don't seem to me difficult to trough back on the water somebody that would be attempting that.

You are wrong about the access on a boat with open transom. The open transom is not at water level and you would not manage to go up the same way you would not manage to go up a marina pontoon if you fell on the water, unless there is a stair.


Another mistaken assumption is the type of boats that do the Transatlantic.. the reality is ARC boats are a minority.. look around anchorages in the Caribe and you will see boats from 22ft to 40ft with flags of various EU countries outnumbering the 'ARC Class' of boats.
There's more poor sailors than rich ones and your level of boat puts you in the expensive toy bracket.. way out of reach of at least 70% of cruisers..
Remember.. CF is a somewhat elite site with many members owning boats $200K plus.. big Oysters, Lagoons, Sundeers etc..
Then there's Boat Alexandra and myself try to drag it down to our level..
But.. joking aside.. the reality is most boat owners on here have boats that cost from 1euro to $50K
Hence.. 'Blanket Statement'
kinda like the old Charles Atlas advert.. do people kick sand in your face.? you can look like this in 6mths..

I used that damn thing for 6yrs and no difference
So it seems the blanket statement regards the type of boat? Meaning than I was referring to old boats with vertical or inclined tansoms and modern boats with swinging bath platforms, excluding sugar scoop sterns? Yes you are right about that, sugar scoop sterns allow for an easy boarding.

But when I posted those images of all main brands modern mass production mass market 40/41ft I was referring to a particular post of yours that was referring the modern boats I talk about and regarding modern mass production brands sugar scoops are out of design for more than a decade.

You were also saying that contemporary mass production main market boats have low transoms or open transoms and the photos were posted to show that you are not right about that.

The post I was referring regarding those photos and the post the went with it were the last two two, that were quoted on my post and a first one that started this conversation about easy to board transoms by a swimmer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
But Polux.. every boat you've shown us as the 'Way to Go' on another thread has little or no stern.. and the 20+year old fadfor easy access sugar bathing platforms make it a doddle..
Also.. machete's are the popular local weapon.. its the Americans who carry the guns...
As for the anchor chain access.. if I at 67 can do it.. a young guy will fly up it

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Easy Peasy Polux..
Grab the scoop.. pull up then drop ones body till arms fully stretched, head submerged, then pull up combined with a strong scissor kick will lift you to hip height.. and your on
This Beneteau 331 I owned, I never Needed a ladder.. but being lazy I used it.
I'm 6ft1" tall, fittish and 70kilos.. these kids are stronger, faster and fitter than me


Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I sail them.. they even have a rudder handy as a step..
Tell you what.. next time your in Portugal gimme a shout.. then anchor your boat and I'll get on board without a ladder.. maybe seeing will be believing..
So inside of saying that I made blank statements what about saying that you misunderstood what I was saying regarding modern boats not to be easily boardable by the transom by a swimer (and the type of modern boat's transoms). Contrary to what you were saying they are not possible or very difficult to escalate by a swimmer (without rope's help), much less by you.

You say my "blanket statment" was dangerous when I firstly said (on the text that you quoted) that many boats are boarded by small boats and later said that those are easy to find and use, from dinghies from yacht ashore to local small fishermen boat's.

Later I said that the really good preventive measure is not anchoring on isolated coves that are not frequented by many yachts in places were there are locals willing to rob you, and that unfortunately covers a lot of cruising grounds.

So what dangerous "blanket statement" are you talking about?

Regarding CF to be an elite site you can only be joking. Go and see on the pools the age of the average boat here and look around, particularly on the med were most boats are, and look at the age and value of the average boat. A big difference and it is not here that they are newer or more valuable.
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:27   #57
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

They swim,, far from the shore or close to shore, and they know how to reach the deck in a hig freeboard boat, in one occasion in Grenada , St georges, at 4.00 Am, another one in Bequia, far from shore , another one in Rodney bay St Lucia, one more in St Lucia when they take my dingy , my fault for leaving the dink in the water , locked but in the water,,, In Vieux fort to,I was peeing and 2 swimers at midnight close to my boat, spreadrs lights and they are gone... definitely they swim and in some occasions approach with a pirogue or tender , one in the engine ready to go whizzing, and other jumping in the water and swimming silent to the boat...
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:29   #58
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

Back to the thread topic

It would be interesting to think about how much violence against cruisers happens in the Caribbean versus the rest of the world. I'm starting my 5th year in the Mediterranean and so far haven't hear of one theft from a boat let alone assault. The Atlantic coast up to Norway and the Baltic areas - never heard anything there. Canada and United States, lots of crime on land and some theft, but not too many assaults AFAIK. Pacific Mexico - theft and maybe a few assaults? Pacific Islands - not much that I've ever heard of.

It really seems that the Caribbean is the place for crime against boaters. From our own experiences we don't feel really safe there. When I'm at beach bars it's all Ya Mon, but in the back alleys there are plenty of unsavory characters who would take an opportunity to rob if it came along. I can understand the attraction to this area for a season, maybe two, but spending years or retirement there - no thanks.

Just my opinion.
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:30   #59
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

[QUOTE=Polux;2064717]So it seems the blanket statement regards the type of boat? Meaning than I was referring to old boats with vertical or inclined tansoms and modern boats with swinging bath platforms, excluding sugar scoop sterns? Yes you are right about that, sugar scoop sterns allow for an easy boarding.

But when I posted those images of all main brands modern mass production mass market 40/41ft I was referring to a particular post of yours that was referring the modern boats I talk about and regarding modern mass production brands sugar scoops are out of design to already several years, almost a decade.

You were also saying that contemporary mass production main market boats have low transoms or open transoms and the photos were posted to show that you are not right about that.

The post I was referring regarding those photos and the post the went with it were the last two two, that were quoted on my post and a first one that started this conversation about easy to board transoms:








So inside of saying that I made blank statements what about saying that you misunderstood what I was saying regarding and the type of modern boat's transoms, that contrary to what you were saying, are not possible or very difficult be boardable by a swimmer (without rope's help), much less by you?

Note that I said my statements were dangerous when I firstly said (on the text that you quoted) that many boats are boarded by small boats and later said that those are easy to find and use, from dinghies from yacht ashore to local small fishermen boat's.

Later I said that the really good preventive measure is not anchoring on isolated coves that are not frequented by many yachts in places were there are locals willing to rob you, and that unfortunately covers a lot of cruising grounds.

So what dangerous "blanket statement" are you talking about?

Regarding CF to be an elite site you can only be joking. Go and see on the pools the age of the average boat here and look around, particularly on the med were most boats are, and look at the age and value of the average boat. A big difference and it is not here that they are newer.[/QUOTE]


Haha , sailing in murky waters again ,, Paolo? lol
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:51   #60
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Re: German killed this morning, St Vincent

Polux is right about the Med and Neil Pride is right about the Caribbean, well maybe right is not the best word but I'd agree there is generally more expensive boats in the Med and cheaper ones in the Caribbean.
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