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Old 26-10-2016, 15:46   #91
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
You are such a Sweet talker. Mind you If your referring in any way to me, you are exceedingly mistaken. Just because I'm not a grumpy old codger, which I am so thankful for btw, does not mean I am wrong. Does not mean I'm right either. We just agree to disagree.
No, he is probably referring to me? The new pic of you is far better.
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Old 26-10-2016, 15:55   #92
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

It does kind of amuse me that a lot of people who have never even seen boot key harbor are chiming in. I used to be in and out of BKH every week, sometime multiple times per week, and I visit the keys once or twice a year and visit BKH every time (since 1988).

I assure you, none of these derelict vessels were kicked off a dock for being 34' in a 35' zone. There are a lot of derelict vessels in BKH that need to be moved. And as for a car "not being someones home", that's kind of elitist. I have been fortunate enough to never have been forced to live in my car, but I know people who have. And for a lot of the boats in BKH, a car would be a step up!

Are there issues with the application certain laws being unfair to boaters in certain instances? Absolutely. Is this one of them? No. (Hell, we had someone chime in who lives in BKH and say that he knows both of the people mentioned, and "no one is sad to see them go"!). If more derelict vessels were taken off the water maybe a lot of the unfair laws (like the anchoring restrictions in FL) wouldn't be put in place!
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Old 26-10-2016, 16:13   #93
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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It does kind of amuse me that a lot of people who have never even seen boot key harbor are chiming in. I used to be in and out of BKH every week, sometime multiple times per week, and I visit the keys once or twice a year and visit BKH every time (since 1988).
Before coming to california, I spent 2-1/2 years liveaboard/crusing SW florida, including the keys and the Dry Tortuga's.

Not saying that there are not bad apples, Though the video USB posted showed some boats I would not count as derelict. Sure the ones blown ashore and stripped are derelict and should be removed. But some of the boats they stickered I would not count as derelict. But I must have lower standards then some
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Old 26-10-2016, 16:24   #94
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

I lived in a van down by the river for 3 years, does that make me derelict?
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Old 26-10-2016, 16:33   #95
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

These are also all anchored vessels. Anchoring is a right and act of navigation.

Bottom line: if your boat is not able to navigate unassisted; it should not be allowed to anchor.
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:09   #96
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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Before coming to california, I spent 2-1/2 years liveaboard/crusing SW florida, including the keys and the Dry Tortuga's.

Not saying that there are not bad apples, Though the video USB posted showed some boats I would not count as derelict. Sure the ones blown ashore and stripped are derelict and should be removed. But some of the boats they stickered I would not count as derelict. But I must have lower standards then some
I didn't watch the videos, if they weren't the boats in question, they're not germane to the conversation.

That's the problem, everyone goes off on a tangent. South Carolina this, California that. These are two boats (at least!) and two people who the liveaboards/anchorouts are "not sad to see them go". In this instance the FWC did their job well, and in doing so took out "two bad apples" so they don't "spoil the bunch" and cause an increase in the anchoring laws that are actually bullshit and are actually infringing on the rights of law-abiding boaters in the state.
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:17   #97
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

I agree that it's a good thing that laws already on the books are being used to address the problem. Giving notices, and fines for violations, yes. Jailing a person for the inability to comply or pay a fine? I don't agree with that. You can't get blood from a stone. Incarceration costs way more than the disposal of a derelict boat I'll bet. If you'd want to save tax dollars I'd think the better idea would be to impound and dispose of the boat. Then offset any costs above those reimbursed by the state, along with their monetary fines and try to set up a reasonable payment plan with the individuals.
Again, you can't get blood from a stone. I know. I'd personally not want my tax dollars going toward the prison system, the prosecution costs, the defense costs, or the court costs in addition to all the other costs incurred to evict and demolish a derelict boat.
As stated some are not boaters, they are people in dire straits just ignorant enough to rent or buy a sinking boat from some unscrupulous character that most likely fed them a line, "the waterways are free to all". It's a problem. It has to be addressed from all perspectives.
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:27   #98
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Not to sound bad and I have posted this before, but in the Panhandle for years they have been disposing of derelict boats. It starts with a BIG orange sticker and that stays on the boat for some time, then the boat is towed over to the city marina for awhile, then it disappears.
I don't want to sound ignorant on the disappear part but I don't know how it is disposed of.

I don't think tens of thousands of dollars are spent on the disposal either, but then its not likely a big environmental issue is made either, likely its stripped of any parts the yard wants, then ground up and put in the dump.

I think once they sink, they get expensive to dispose of
I once "won" a contract to dispose of derelicts.... NOTHING was salvaged, the boats were hauled to a seawall, picked up with a grapple and stuffed into a truck for a ride to the landfill. The contract actually specified there was to be "NO SALVAGE".
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:34   #99
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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And leaving their mess behind to be cleaned up on the taxpayers dime.
Kinda like the Superfund projects to clean up old big-business messes that often cost millions to clean up after the companies have declared bankruptcy(often stiffing employees of company pensions).

Of course, to some degree, this is almost a backdoor war on poverty. I very, very seriously doubt that many of these people with these boats are financially(or mentally), well-to-do and I rather doubt many of these boat owners can afford much more than food and clothes, let alone a $250 fine, which might increase because of non-compliance with the courts(contempt, costs of service and such to pile on more costs). Welcome to a work-around for a debtor's jail.

This problem, like most problems is a miriad of many levels of gray, being resolved by black typewritten letters on white paper.

Let's hope the enforcement of these laws, gets rid of abandoned boats, and "protects", citizens who are living on boats, that are so poorly maintained as to present too much personal danger to those owners.
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:47   #100
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
You are such a Sweet talker. Mind you If your referring in any way to me, you are exceedingly mistaken. Just because I'm not a grumpy old codger, which I am so thankful for btw, does not mean I am wrong. Does not mean I'm right either. We just agree to disagree.
No, As I said, and I say what I mean, "this thread" but I do notice in many different threads you do love to play the victim. As far as sweet talk, ha ha, not for you sailor"chic"
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:49   #101
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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No, he is probably referring to me? The new pic of you is far better.
another victim player? HA HA HA HA, if I don't agree with you, pull the victim card? must be out of poor cards?
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Old 26-10-2016, 17:58   #102
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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The cited exclusion leave one wondering where that "free to park it" might be???
Got me!

;-)

I used to have that vision of America from Hollywood movies: some big towns, some small towns and plenty of land in between. Now after some years of reading thru many posts at this forum I understood that my vision was just that.

A driver can get shot by the policeman for leaving their car and a sailor is not welcome to anchor in a roadstead because the view from the rich man's window gets marred?

So let's stop all this freedom nonsense because apparently in some places of this world there is none left.

Meanwhile Wells Fargo manager grabs a bag full of taxpayer's money and goes on vacation in their maxiyacht. These are free to anchor as they please. They do not mar any view. They are the view.

People who want to live where they want as they want should be free to do as they please. Trouble makers, old derelict boats and fraudulent bankers should be removed.

Cost to the taxpayers? Yes. Just spend the money wisely so that we can live in freedom and anchor where the chart reads 6m sand and thick mud.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 26-10-2016, 18:08   #103
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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We can get into legal technicalities but if it walks like a duck...

The boats in question are all derelict or will be shortly with the owners having no interest or plan to address their final state.

It's not class warfare. The rules apply to everyone. 95% of the time the cost to address the issues is negligible, so it's not a attack on the poo. Spend an hour once a week keeping the boat clean and odds are they won't even get on the radar of the authorities.

We live in a civilized world. I you want to live in it, you live by it's rules. There are plenty of backwaters along the gulf and southern east coast far from civilization where they could evade authorities notice. The people causing the problem don't choose to live there because there is no civilization. You can't have it both ways. If you want the benefits of living in a civilized world, you have to meet the rules of living in that same world.

I commend the authorities as I'm sure the vast majority of voting locals do.
Nailed it 360.
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Old 26-10-2016, 18:29   #104
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071
And leaving their mess behind to be cleaned up on the taxpayers dime.

Interesting. Makes me think of the majority of non sailors who think rescuing sailors in the open ocean on well founded boats is the height of stupidity and even more offended when it is done on the tax payers dime.
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Old 26-10-2016, 18:30   #105
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Got me!

;-)

I used to have that vision of America from Hollywood movies: some big towns, some small towns and plenty of land in between. Now after some years of reading thru many posts at this forum I understood that my vision was just that.

A driver can get shot by the policeman for leaving their car and a sailor is not welcome to anchor in a roadstead because the view from the rich man's window gets marred?

So let's stop all this freedom nonsense because apparently in some places of this world there is none left.

Meanwhile Wells Fargo manager grabs a bag full of taxpayer's money and goes on vacation in their maxiyacht. These are free to anchor as they please. They do not mar any view. They are the view.

People who want to live where they want as they want should be free to do as they please. Trouble makers, old derelict boats and fraudulent bankers should be removed.

Cost to the taxpayers? Yes. Just spend the money wisely so that we can live in freedom and anchor where the chart reads 6m sand and thick mud.

Cheers,
b.
Sounds like thoughts while having a glass of red wine and watching a wonderful sunset from a beautiful anchorage! Enjoy!
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