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Old 26-10-2016, 08:48   #31
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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Originally Posted by Sun and Moon View Post
327.4107 Vessels at risk of becoming derelict on waters of this state.—
...
(2) An officer of the commission or of a law enforcement agency specified in s. 327.70 may determine that a vessel is at risk of becoming derelict if any of the following conditions exist
a) The vessel is taking on or has taken on water without an effective means to dewater.
(b) Spaces on the vessel that are designed to be enclosed are incapable of being sealed off or remain open to the elements for extended periods of time.
(c) The vessel has broken loose or is in danger of breaking loose from its anchor.
(d) The vessel is left or stored aground unattended in such a state that would prevent the vessel from getting underway, is listing due to water intrusion, or is sunk or partially sunk.




The guy they arrested may be guilty of various charges, including pollution charges, but the conditions cited by the officer don't match the Florida definition of derelict vessel.
You cited the definition of a vessel at risk of becoming derelict. Here is the relevant definition of a derelict vessel (FS 823.11(1)):

"(b) “Derelict vessel” means a vessel, as defined in s. 327.02, that is left, stored, or abandoned:
1. In a wrecked, junked, or substantially dismantled condition upon any public waters of this state."

Sounds like the officer got it right.
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Old 26-10-2016, 09:21   #32
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

Yep. A sound initiative.

Owners of old boats should be held accountable for their craft. Make it safe or get it out of the water, cut down, dispose off, end of problem.

Vagabond (=derelict) boats a major concern in all but the posh sailing areas. Where we live at least 10%, maybe 25% of all boats in the marinas and anchorages should be taken out of the circuit.

b.
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Old 26-10-2016, 09:27   #33
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

I can see an argument to "pay off" some as the county will likely have to dispose of the problems boats eventually at significant cost to tax payers.

Problem is, what do they do with the money and the boat? Move the boat up the coast to Cocoa Beach or St. John's county? Sink it on the reef? I doubt any keys yard want people dismantling derelict boats.
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Old 26-10-2016, 09:54   #34
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

Not to sound bad and I have posted this before, but in the Panhandle for years they have been disposing of derelict boats. It starts with a BIG orange sticker and that stays on the boat for some time, then the boat is towed over to the city marina for awhile, then it disappears.
I don't want to sound ignorant on the disappear part but I don't know how it is disposed of.

I don't think tens of thousands of dollars are spent on the disposal either, but then its not likely a big environmental issue is made either, likely its stripped of any parts the yard wants, then ground up and put in the dump.

I think once they sink, they get expensive to dispose of
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Old 26-10-2016, 10:01   #35
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

I totally agree. The legal definition of a vague violation such as
"at risk of becoming derelict" needs to be followed as exactly as possible. It must not be left to an officer's opinion. There are plenty of laws that can be applied without attempting to predict a future condition. Health Department regs on waste, lack of current registration, to name just two. I see some examples here in Marathon but the failure is generally not the lack of sufficient regulations but the willingness and resources to apply them.
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Old 26-10-2016, 10:08   #36
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

"Unwilling to spend an hour or so keeping the boat clean" sounds like the rantings of the ignorant. Hopefully no Marine Officers are investigating boats because they are dirty. They generally are busy with expired registration stickers, visibly damaged, listing, drifting or grounded boats which is as it should be.
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Old 26-10-2016, 10:15   #37
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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Vagabond (=derelict) boats
Vagabond: wandering from place to place without any settled home; nomad

See also Itinerant, Sojurner, Cruiser?

Last time I was in the US for a census, the census taker walked the docks (Johns Island SC) and asked the live aboards to fill out the census. As to residence (own or rent) we were considered "other" along with the itinerant and the homeless. This on a well found 45' sailing vessel with better than 30,000 miles under the keel.

Just because I have not chosen to own (or rent) a piece of dirt for the last 4 decades don't call me a bum. Now that the kids are grown, and I am getting older, I have downsized to a smaller vessel, but she still makes way and I get bored easy.

Glad to live in a community that appreciates its vagabonds... Easier to pick tourists than it is to pick cotton...

Besides, we're all here 'cause we're not all there.




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Old 26-10-2016, 10:39   #38
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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I wish they would do that in my area. We have three sailboats in the marsh within sight of my marina and a powerboat sunk in the channel. Nobody cares.
Amen and good for the FWC. I believe SCDNR is probably hogtied by politics or resources.
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Old 26-10-2016, 10:50   #39
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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Vagabond: wandering from place to place without any settled home; nomad

Last time I was in the US for a census, the census taker walked the docks (Johns Island SC) and asked the live aboards to fill out the census. As to residence (own or rent) we were considered "other" along with the itinerant and the homeless. This on a well found 45' sailing vessel with better than 30,000 miles under the keel.
Agreed, In california if you live on a boat your are ranked right there with the homeless. I always worry about these types of laws. Oh I agree the true abandoned derelict boats need to go. But what happens to the folks living on non abandoned boats.

I worry about that Pre-Derilict description and how that might evolve into just older boats at some future time. Lord knows the Rose could stand a coat of paint on the top sides. The old Girl is starting to look a tad used, a bit salty as it were. But she's a seaworthy old thing. Never failed a CG inspection yet.

Like the keys, rents in the SF bay area are through the roof. I earn $600-$800 a month, but if I had to live on land I could not afford it as rents start at $1200 and go up from there.

The folks that say just get a job, perhaps don't realize that even with a job, many struggle to make ends meet.

Myself I'm lucky as I love living on the water and was living aboard when I was making big bucks. But at 60 years of age I am considered too old for engineering. Such is life.

Well got to go weigh anchor and sail down the road.
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Old 26-10-2016, 11:02   #40
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

I was involved with disposal of several orange sticker boats in ft Myers. An insured contractor was given GPS coordinates for all boats and asked for bids. They got to keep any good parts but the hulls had to be destroyed.

This particular contract rented a vacant lot in a fixed used neighborhood in Ft Myers Beach and got to work with chainsaw and sawzall. EPA was not involved. Would not have worked in the keys.
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Old 26-10-2016, 11:02   #41
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

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I totally agree. The legal definition of a vague violation such as
"at risk of becoming derelict" needs to be followed as exactly as possible. It must not be left to an officer's opinion. There are plenty of laws that can be applied without attempting to predict a future condition.
See the definition of "at risk of becoming derelict" someone posted above. Mostly unambiguous, although "in danger of breaking loose from its anchor" might apply to every anchored vessel.
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Old 26-10-2016, 11:37   #42
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

Well done!
I wish that would happen here!
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Old 26-10-2016, 11:57   #43
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

Just because you're poor it does not mean you're irresponsible. Just because you're irresponsible it does not mean you're poor. In fact the opposite is often the case. That being said, in my opinion Boot Key Harbor is a state treasure & those that abuse it should not be tolerated. All too often, instead of enforcing the derelict boating laws already on the books, derelict boats & irresponsible boat owners have been used as an excuse to restrict anchoring for all of us.
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Old 26-10-2016, 12:02   #44
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

Long time ago when it was in doubt as to whether I would amount to anything or not, my Mother told me something that I remember. She told me that soap was cheap.
What she was telling me was even if your poor, that is not an excuse for being dirty and or looking bad.
Go to many impoverished areas in South America or Indonesia. They live in extreme poverty yet the kids will be spotless clean and the clothes maybe old but they will be freshly laundered too
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Old 26-10-2016, 12:04   #45
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Re: FWC Derelict Enforcement Marathon

I doubt live a boards need to get paranoid anyplace in the US. It would appear removing real derelicts would take emphases off of them. I because of health had left a boat in a marina 600mi. away. They only asked me to have the top sides cleaned, a reasonable request. She wasn't on a hook with the water higher than the waterline.

Common sense needs to prevail someplace some place.
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