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Old 13-05-2010, 16:14   #61
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How many of these pirates are all in the same gang? Are there Gangs or just small independent groups, who cares. my far far away is away from them too. But as someone who has extensively traveled I am in shock that us democratic mobsters who fell that walking the plank is ok for anyone.

someone said food drops. its a start.

stay away there is another good plan.

use some form of legal system and lets not just kill for the convenience of not feeding them 3 squares.

will anyone go to jail for the environmental damage in the gulf of mexico? corporate pirates. Who owns the fishing companys that raped the somali coast? Wall st perhaps

Arhh pirates everywhere

Rage on!
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Old 13-05-2010, 16:16   #62
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Man, you are a blood-thristy lot! Ever been in combat? Ever kill anyone except in a video game?

First off, punishment does not lead to rehabilitation....
This much has been said before.

SOLUTIONS ????

If you do not have better solutions, stop criticizing those who try to do something.

Ruskies are no worse than yanks, French or Israeli. We are all the same lot. No indication in the sources of Ruskies exercising target shooting or anything of the sort.

So, viable alternative SOLUTIONS pls ...

barnie
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Old 13-05-2010, 16:40   #63
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use some form of legal system and lets not just kill for the convenience of not feeding them 3 squares.
You seemed to have missed the point of that part of the post. Did you not read it or are you being obtuse? It's not a matter of avoid or being "inconvenienced" by feeding them 3 squares, it's the fact that it would be like Club Fed for them. They'd love it and "rehabilitation" would be lost on them.

Have you ever been to Somalia and seen how they live? These are people that do what they do, not for fun, but the promise of money and material goods; a "cut" if you will. I agree that with a stable govt in place, this would probably mostly dry up, if they don't just move somewhere else and keep doing it. The warlords that run these gigs want wealth. Plain and simple. The little guy who tags along as henchman does so on the promise of a little cut. Still the law is the law. Wanna protect and preserve the little henchmen? Keep them from becoming a statistic? Then what we need is good ground intelligence and clean surgical strikes on their leaders to end this. Every mothership should be sunk on sight. "Off" the warlords and most of this crap will probably stop.

Until then .... the leaky RIB. (Or whatever)

JMHO
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Old 13-05-2010, 17:25   #64
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Hang them from a yardarm. That's the traditional penalty.
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Old 13-05-2010, 17:43   #65
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You may not have liked them, but they were human ...
When a "human being" will fire an automatic weapon at you with intention to kill, it may change your perspective. It is very easy to be civilized and judge others from the comfort and security of your home.
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Old 13-05-2010, 19:07   #66
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This much has been said before.

SOLUTIONS ????

If you do not have better solutions, stop criticizing those who try to do something.

Ruskies are no worse than yanks, French or Israeli. We are all the same lot. No indication in the sources of Ruskies exercising target shooting or anything of the sort.

So, viable alternative SOLUTIONS pls ...

barnie
"Solutions? You can't handle solutions!", to paraphrase Jack Nicholson's character in A Few Good Men. Not aimed at you personally, Barnie. I'm a fan of your posts. But at the folks who seem dismissive and impatient with proposals to attack the root causes rather than just kill them.

First, follow the money and arrest and try the bankers of the pirate operations, and confiscate their fortunes to fund a task force.
Next, get UN or NATO sponsorship for a peace keeping force and go in and establish order, attacking, killing or arresting the warlords and dismantling their organizations using naval and special forces, and an occupation force. Set up immediate food, medical and intelligence operations, and provide the NGO's with security to do same. Nation building work would then need to proceed. Yes, it would take a sizable military commitment, but one more in our interest than the oil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan IMHO. I read one estimate putting Al Qaida cadre at less than 100 now.

None of this would be easy or quick and probably a waste of time, without serious development of an economic infrastructure that would begin employing the population and give them something approaching a normal life. While there, we (UN forces) might press slowly on into Sudan and clean up that genocidal radical Islamic regime as well. This all sounds tedious, costly and time consuming I know, when so many other issues vie for our attention. But areas of anarchy and warlordism tend to infect their neighbors and spread I think.

No, there probably isn't the political will, or political skill to enlist some Islamic and African troops in the effort, legitimizing the task and encouraging the locals to begin handling their local messes. Not to mention that most governments are currently broke, with falling tax receipts, and are living on credit and printed money and becoming more isolationist.

So, the stop-gap solution to piracy in the area probably is to take every group caught out of action, with detention or death if they choose to fight. And it looks like Stop-gap is what we're left with for the immediate future. Off the top of my head, with no meaningful channel of input to the PTB, that's all I got at the moment. I just get a bit ticked at thoughtless bloodlust from those who don't know firsthand what they are advocating. It really isn't a movie or a game.
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Old 13-05-2010, 19:15   #67
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I know you are not underestimating the problems but Somalia is more than just a big problem it is a 'root' problem that has infliced the world.
Their civil war between chistians and muslims has been going for over 30 years and even an invasion by the good guys (see Blackhawk Down) turned into another debarcle.

They hate us, always will and the religious leaders in the north not only hate us but are supported by the evil of Iran and/ Al Queda.

Either way, I feel the sword is mighter than deplomacy for the intrum 20 to 30 years before the world decides that killing innocents is not a way to Heaven in any religion.

Mark
It's a huge problem to be sure and I don't have the answer to religious bigotry. But I'm pretty sure the sword isn't the answer - the various religious factions (both Christian and Muslim) have been trying that for the last couple of thousand years and it doesn't seem to be working.

Didn't someone once say that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Bigotry, whether national, religious or racial is taught. It is not something that we are born with.
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Old 13-05-2010, 19:25   #68
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Remember that kidnapping for ransom itself is still on most civilized country's statutes a capital crime, the sentence for which is Capital punishment.
I'm sorry but this is factually incorrect.

Capital punishment is not practiced in the majority of countries. It is very much in the minority of countries.

Those countries that do practice capital punishment are predominantly underdeveloped countries...........with a few exceptions.

The Death Penalty Worldwide — Infoplease.com
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Old 13-05-2010, 19:28   #69
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I worked there trying to deliver food aid and support infrastructure services back over 16 years ago. (during the time of Black Hawk down). It didn't work then why should it work now? the world was a lot richer then as well and lots of aid and support went in. They shunned it and resorted to the way of the sword. Therefore I guess that is the best action to take. I recommend that anyone who says stay far far away really shouldn't criticize those who are forced to deal with a problem and at least trying something.
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Old 13-05-2010, 19:33   #70
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Well I didn't read the middle part of the replies. But while I feel the priates need to be stopped, it is hard to find any joy in setting them adrift (pretty dove like for me and abnormal).

It's hard to belive that country can have been at civil war for 30 years and still somehow is still together (is it because no one else wants it?). How can any society hold together in this case?

I don't see how the conflict can ever be resolved till a side wins, but we wouldn't let it get to the point of being that bad for the people involved.

And I think I'll regret having posted this.
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Old 13-05-2010, 20:10   #71
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In my book, every dead pirate makes the waters safer for those who travel upon it.

I will not shed a tear for them- as they terrorize and sometimes, murder the innocent.

Reap what you sow.
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Old 13-05-2010, 20:17   #72
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Like Don, I'm fairly sure I'll regret getting any more entangled with this. It's like a sore I can't resist scratching

This is addressed at everyone who favours a military solution. To achieve this solution, the one where the pirates are all killed, a country is occupied and it's people subjugated to western ideals, are YOU willing to enlist, or if you are too old, are you willing to urge your children to enlist. How long would it be before people started saying that the bodies being returned for a glorious military funeral are too much, too many good people have died. Never ever counting the citizens of the country invaded.

I've served in the forces, my husband, they tell me, died for his country. You who want war, prosecute it with your bodies, else never cry let loose the dogs of war.

P.
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Old 13-05-2010, 20:34   #73
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I've never understood why sailing ships are not allowed to carry weapons. Only the crooks can carry guns and terroize those unarmed citizens that are minding their own business and trying to enjoy life. I say run the pirates thru a grinder and leave the law abiding citizens alone. We put up with enough crap without having to deal with some thugs in a runabout with machine guns...
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Old 13-05-2010, 20:55   #74
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Like Don, I'm fairly sure I'll regret getting any more entangled with this. It's like a sore I can't resist scratching

This is addressed at everyone who favours a military solution. To achieve this solution, the one where the pirates are all killed, a country is occupied and it's people subjugated to western ideals, are YOU willing to enlist, or if you are too old, are you willing to urge your children to enlist. How long would it be before people started saying that the bodies being returned for a glorious military funeral are too much, too many good people have died. Never ever counting the citizens of the country invaded.

I've served in the forces, my husband, they tell me, died for his country. You who want war, prosecute it with your bodies, else never cry let loose the dogs of war.

P.
If ever there was an actual war to be fought this would be it. I would not only join but donate 25% of my total saving to the cause. If I had the backing of a military branch I would act as decoy on my yacht,and murder all who approached. Without losing a minute of sound peaceful sleep.Without question I would join,my life for the life of hundreds of actual innocent people. Without a doubt where do I sign.I could not care less about people that accost and terrorize decent people for profit.

They brought war upon themselves,and the people of that country allow them to do it. Guilt by association. Just like they lose no sleep over murdering people of the world I in kind would show the same mercy.
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Old 13-05-2010, 22:21   #75
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You must be on commission. I think there is only one still flying.
Two actually, one is in Hamilton Ontario, an hours drive away and the other is part of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight. Not sure where she is based, but I'll tell you, there is nothing more worth seeing (if you are into aircraft) than the Mynarski Lancaster tooling along over the lake on its way somewhere. I see it at least a couple of times a summer, and can go visit up close n personal anytime I want. She is a beauty.

Sabre
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