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Old 13-05-2010, 09:22   #46
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I still think setting someone adrift is the wrong way to go. Even in countries where the death penalty is still an option, death by torture is not. If the Russian military honestly felt that this men deserved death, then shoot them - quick and humane, get it over with, and don't cover it up with some politically motivated cowardly statement about "releasing" them.
And, even if you are capable of feeling no remorse over this kind of action, it seems extremely distasteful to actually celebrate it. You may not have liked them, but they were human beings, and as such they have the same basic rights as the rest of us - the ones that we don't restrict other classes of criminals from. That's why I don't think outright executions is the way to go. Isn't the message here: "We talk a lot about human rights but when it comes right down to it, we're coming to your level." IOW, we talk a good game about human rights, but when push comes to shove, we don't mean it and are willing to put aside our principles and behave the same way they do.
Sum-up: Instead of holding up the Western values that are supposedly so dear (due process, trial by jury, and plenty of others), those principles are being thrown aside in the name of expedience and revenge, and people whose motivations we haven't even tried to understand are being put to death slowly and torturously - and without even admitting it. There is nothing honorable or worth celebrating in that.
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Old 13-05-2010, 09:40   #47
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Mariness: + 1 ! Excellently put.
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Old 13-05-2010, 09:42   #48
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Which do you particularly favour:
Excessive Bail, and/or Fines, or Cruel & Unusual Punishments?
You can't bleed a turnip so it would be cruel and unusual punishments.

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Exactly!...

And don't get me started on Cable TV..Congenial Visits and other so called prisoners rights here at home either....

We need to go the way of old Egypt....get caught steeling loose a hand....only the stupid would do it again............I have no use for people who choose to be stupid.

Russia still gets my +1
I'm not for these:
Severe historical penalties include the breaking wheel, boiling to death, flaying, disembowelment, crucifixion, impalement, crushing, stoning, execution by burning, dismemberment, sawing, scaphism, or necklacing

But being sent to prision needs to be a really bad exerience. 6 days of hard work per week making anything, severe penalties for violence in prision, whatever. When an inmate gets released, they should be highly motivated to never commit a crime that returns them back to prision.

Couple that with education and training for a productive post-prision job and support afterwords.
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Old 13-05-2010, 10:26   #49
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There's always Gitmo. I think being caught in the act is evidence enough for conviction on the spot by the ranking person on the rescuing ship, the captain. Punishment for crimes shipboard has always been handled by the Captain, let 'em handle it. The "responding" vessel and the country of the reponding vessel needs to be responsible for the disposition of the pirates and not palm them off on someone else. Don't want to deal with it you shouldn't respond.
All that being said, I have no problem with any punishment given but don't just "turn them loose". Sending them out in a RIB at least gives them a chance for survival. Not much of one, but a chance all the same. Hell, if you think that's cruel and unusual, give them a choice. Cranial ventilation or a ride on the RIB. That way it's their problem.

JMHO
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Old 13-05-2010, 10:30   #50
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Before the Mods get here.....

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Before you discount execution by burning I would mention that it did cure Europe of Witches

To be honest I have 2 solutions to most of the world's problems. and Crucifixions are one of them......the other is 1000 Bomber Raids - with Lancaster Bombers
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Old 13-05-2010, 10:34   #51
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heh. too late...

and nice sig D...
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Old 13-05-2010, 11:43   #52
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O.M.G

I hope i never get drunk and wind up on your boats by mistake.......


I am not a pirate, I don't have pirate friends, nor do I support piracy. Sea Shepherd excluded.

I have some Russian friends but damn when does Russia ever give anything away, really they gave them an inflatable and a radio anything

Interview the Russian sailors with a bottle Vodka and you might see that they were just pushed along a short plank with something pointy.

Really in the 21st century we applaud this behavior. Some of you people are really scaring me with your mob driven responses to this.

The governments involved don't seem to have a Law that sticks so just let them go or just push them over board. Is that really the best we can do????


I am going far far away on my boat because this is perhaps all I can do.
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Old 13-05-2010, 11:47   #53
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the other is 1000 Bomber Raids - with Lancaster Bombers
You must be on commission. I think there is only one still flying.
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Old 13-05-2010, 11:52   #54
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I am going far far away on my boat because this is perhaps all I can do.
OK, well, go there.
When we were in the Gulf of Aden a few months ago.....

Go there and report back to us how you see it from a closer perspective.

I am not being facicious.

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Old 13-05-2010, 14:02   #55
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Quote:
Really in the 21st century we applaud this behavior. Some of you people are really scaring me with your mob driven responses to this.

The governments involved don't seem to have a Law that sticks so just let them go or just push them over board. Is that really the best we can do????
What should they do? Put them in prison giving them 3 hots, a cot, and cable tv with a weight room?!? They'd all turn to piracy just to get busted. It'd be the best life they ever had! I know. My wife is a CO at the max sec prison here in Beeville.
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Old 13-05-2010, 14:04   #56
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There sometimes comes a time in human relationships (group and individual) when talking just doesn't solve problems. When that time comes arbitrators can help try to keep the peace, but often fail. When negotiations are kaput people turn to fight or flight. That seems to be the case now off the East African coast.

There are presently hundreds of hostages (prisoners) being held by pirates, in what I'm sure are atrocious conditions. They live day to day, without adequate food or medicine, longing for the righteous to come to their aid. They wait while the world sits on it's collective hands. It's similar to Europe's situation just 70 years ago, when Hitler's plague spread far over the land before any real action was taken. Seems outrage is just a whole lot easier than action when it's someone else who's suffering.

I think it's obvious that force is the answer to this problem, just as it was then. It's just a matter of when the collective body finds the guts to deal with it. I must say, it's amusing that some have concern for the murderous thugs well-being, when caught. The last time someone shot at me I shot back. And I wasn't trying to just change his mind.
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Old 13-05-2010, 14:43   #57
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The root cause of piracy off Somalia lies in the fact that Somalia itself is in a state of anarchy and has been for some time. Get Somalia back on its feet and the piracy issue will dissolve soon after.
Ha!

The US, with a little help from their friends, have tried just this in Afghanistan, Iran and a couple of other oil-rich states. It does not work. And why should 'we' get (Somalia) back on its feet? If Somalia does not want to get on her feet, well, too bad for the Somali people.

Viable options? Probably none.

Thus, I subscribe - help, teach, support, try to help towards a better future for every troubled nation. And shoot the pirates in the meantime.

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Old 13-05-2010, 14:49   #58
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O.M.G

(...)
The governments involved don't seem to have a Law that sticks so just let them go or just push them over board. Is that really the best we can do????
(...)
If you think this is NOT the best - PLS tell us what are, in your eyes, the better solutions.

Asking rhetorical questions in a dramatic way only shows you are just as helpless as we are.

barnie
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Old 13-05-2010, 15:12   #59
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Ha!

The US, with a little help from their friends, have tried just this in Afghanistan, Iran and a couple of other oil-rich states. It does not work. And why should 'we' get (Somalia) back on its feet? If Somalia does not want to get on her feet, well, too bad for the Somali people.

Viable options? Probably none.

Thus, I subscribe - help, teach, support, try to help towards a better future for every troubled nation. And shoot the pirates in the meantime.

b.
Indeed, and very well put. They should be shot on the spot and buried at sea. I think the Russians were far too delicate, although I give them credit for at least doing something, unlike the rest of the civilized world. The use of force and the threat of the use of force at sea against perfectly innocent mariners for the purpose of extorting money is very rightly a capital offense. It needs a harsh response -- more like what the Russians have just done; more like the Americans in Tripoli in the 18th century -- than all this dithering.
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Old 13-05-2010, 15:46   #60
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Man, you are a blood-thristy lot! Ever been in combat? Ever kill anyone except in a video game?

First off, punishment does not lead to rehabilitation. People don't come out of prison repentant and determined not to ever sin again. They come out with many new skills and buddies, an angry chip on their shoulder, and the intention to never again be caught. Sociologists' studies in the 50's, 60's, and 70's proved the only way to get offenders against the legal, cultural and social rules to conform was to give them, or make sure they have, a stake in the system. I'm sure that will stick in the craw of the vengance crowd.

And btw, we should remember that what we read, see or hear from all and any official sources isn't necessarily, or even likely to be true. All of them are consummate spinmeisters of reality. They say "watch this hand closely" as they do their secret deeds with the other. There is no proof that the Ruskies didn't set 'em adrift and use them for gunnery practice, then (nudge nudge wink wink) say we lost sight of them.
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