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Old 12-05-2010, 13:05   #31
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Pirates are pirates, from Somalia or not. One hostage was tossed off a cruise ship (with his wheelchair) a few years ago.
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Old 12-05-2010, 13:35   #32
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"Can't we fill 'old boats' with food, water filters, shelters. Delivered direct to the people with the message that these will only be repeated on certain conditions."
Right, eleven, and we can rely on you personally to go along and make sure the usual petty warlords and thugs don't immediately STEAL all those supplies and use them to maintain their own local thuggery.
Or perhaps you've been asleep for the last 20 years and hadn't realized that's what happens with MOST foreign aid in MOST undeveloped locations where there is no functioning government?

Other peoples in other placeds have built their own nations and governments. Some peoples in some parts of the world, have managed to keep themselves in tribal poverty for thousands of years while that happened. The sympathy card onloy goes so far, then one has to put on the flack jacket and mention Kipling and the politically incorrect concept of "White's Mans Burden". (Not that the Brits did such a great job with Ireland, the MidEast, or SouthAsia.)
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Old 12-05-2010, 14:40   #33
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Pirates are pirates, from Somalia or not. One hostage was tossed off a cruise ship (with his wheelchair) a few years ago.
Pirates may be pirates; but terrorists are not pirates.

On October 7, 1985 four heavily armed TERRORISTS, representing the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), hijacked the Italian cruise ship "ACHILLE LAURO" , with some 100 mostly elderly passengers on board, in Egyptian waters.
The hijackers demanded that Israel free 50 Palestinian prisoners, and to prove their determination, they shot and killed a disabled American tourist, 69-year-old Leon Klinghoffer, and threw his body overboard with his wheelchair.
The PLO was subsequently sued for its role in the death of Leon Klinghoffer. The $1.5 billion suit was dropped when the PLO paid an undisclosed sum to Klinghoffer's daughters.
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Old 12-05-2010, 16:42   #34
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Gord...you may be technically correct, but after reading articles from and about the Chandlers ordeal, I'm confident they would feel their captors are full fledged terrorists.

Bill
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Old 12-05-2010, 16:43   #35
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EH, Gord, the hijacking WAS an act of piracy. Doesn't matter if you are a pole-dancer or a chiropractor, once you step aboard a ship and say "OK, I'm in charge now!" your occupational category changes to "pirate" and you're committing piracy.

The pirates were terrorists. Or political freedom fighters. Or brainwashed schmucks. But they were still pirates once they stepped on board with the intent to take over the ship.
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Old 12-05-2010, 17:01   #36
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Whom have the Somali pirates actually killed?
ANTARA News: Somali pirates kill Yemeni fisherman
Somalia: Pirates kill a Kenyan man
The Maritime Executive Magazine :: Somali Pirates Kill Crewmember & Torch Seychelles Ship ::
Somali Pirates Vow to Hunt Down, Kill Americans in Revenge - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com
Pirates vow to kill U.S., French sailors - CNN.com
Somali pirates kill Syrian captain in Mogadishu coast | Alshahid Network

Like what? Googling is also for the amateurs?

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Old 12-05-2010, 18:25   #37
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Awww...poor pirates.
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Old 12-05-2010, 18:42   #38
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And see where that has got us in recent times.............
Exactly!...

And don't get me started on Cable TV..Congenial Visits and other so called prisoners rights here at home either....

We need to go the way of old Egypt....get caught steeling loose a hand....only the stupid would do it again............I have no use for people who choose to be stupid.

Russia still gets my +1
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Old 12-05-2010, 19:03   #39
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The problem with the criminal justice system in the United States started with eighth amendment to our constitution.
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Old 12-05-2010, 23:58   #40
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I have no problem with the pirates being detained and brought to justice. They are no better than thugs and should be treated as such. If they kill to steal then they should face the legal penalty for that. The problem is that no government or authority will accept them and bring them before the courts so just how do we resolve this?
Giving money to the government in charge of Somalia seems a wasted exercise. Capturing them likewise. Is killing them accidentally the only way forwards?
Force has failed to work in all rich v poor wars to date. We are learning the 'hearts and minds' approach can work. We need to address that solution to piracy.
Myself, I believe we should occupy these rebel areas and sort them out, has anyone got a few spare armies? I thought they were all pretty busy sorting out something we never should have got involved with in the first place!
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Old 13-05-2010, 02:48   #41
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The root cause of piracy off Somalia lies in the fact that Somalia itself is in a state of anarchy and has been for some time. Get Somalia back on its feet and the piracy issue will dissolve soon after.

This is quite obviously easier said than done and isn’t going to happen any time soon.

So, in the meantime, what is the answer?

Shoot them / cast them adrift? This doesn’t sit well with me. Firstly, serving arbitrary justice without due process or allowing the accused to defend themselves goes against the principles of pretty much every ordered society on the planet. Secondly, the death penalty is only acceptable in a minority of societies, most of which are underdeveloped countries (if that’s the PC term – I don’t mean to offend – just to state a fact).

Bring them to justice under the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea? This would on the face of it seem to be the answer, but putting it into practice seems to be more problematic from a legal perspective – and perhaps there is a lack of desire there also. It seems these two issues were the driver behind the Russians decision to cast these particular pirates adrift.

The third option, which I think has merit, is to nominate a country in the region where these pirates could be brought to justice. Kenya has already signed agreements with the EU, UK, China, Denmark & Canada to do just this and currently has more than 100 accused pirates in custody at the moment (according to the BBC).

The Seychelles has recently amended its criminal code to enable it to prosecute pirates under universal jurisdiction. So this is a second avenue.

Will these measures stop piracy? – I doubt it – but it is a workable mechanism for bringing them to justice.
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Old 13-05-2010, 03:28   #42
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The root cause of piracy off Somalia lies in the fact that Somalia itself is in a state of anarchy and has been for some time. Get Somalia back on its feet and the piracy issue will dissolve soon after.
I know you are not underestimating the problems but Somalia is more than just a big problem it is a 'root' problem that has infliced the world.
Their civil war between chistians and muslims has been going for over 30 years and even an invasion by the good guys (see Blackhawk Down) turned into another debarcle.

They hate us, always will and the religious leaders in the north not only hate us but are supported by the evil of Iran and/ Al Queda.

Either way, I feel the sword is mighter than deplomacy for the intrum 20 to 30 years before the world decides that killing innocents is not a way to Heaven in any religion.

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Old 13-05-2010, 04:42   #43
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The problem with the criminal justice system in the United States started with eighth amendment to our constitution.
Which do you particularly favour:
Excessive Bail, and/or Fines, or Cruel & Unusual Punishments?
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Old 13-05-2010, 05:13   #44
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It does not matter if pirates have killed their hostages during the commission of taking hostages or kidnapping crew for ransom. Remember that kidnapping for ransom itself is still on most civilized country's statutes a capital crime, the sentence for which is Capital punishment. Even the USA regards kidnapping for ransom a capital offense in 28 states. The argument given by the Somali pirates for demanding huge ransoms is to compensate for illegal fishing off their coastal waters - There is no evidence that one cent has been delivered to impoverished fishermen by their pirate brothers.
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Old 13-05-2010, 06:14   #45
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Laidback says "The argument given by the Somali pirates for demanding huge ransoms is to compensate for illegal fishing off their coastal waters - There is no evidence that one cent has been delivered to impoverished fishermen by their pirate brothers."
This is probably true. Hence my suggestion to send packages by inflatable. Most will be collected by genuine fishermen before they reach the coast making it clear that there is no animosity to Somalia, just the pirates. Random air drops would also stand a better chance of reaching the general population. There must be a way we can do this, even if the government have to be paid to allow it.
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