Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-05-2010, 01:16   #16
Registered User
 
Eleven's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southampton UK
Boat: Jaguar 22 mono called Arfur.
Posts: 1,220
Images: 3
There are some 400 to 500 hostages in Somalia.
It's hard not to rejoice at getting even but in a 'proper' war there is the Geneva Convention.
If we claim to be civilised that is the minimum standard 'we' should operate to.
Solving some of the issues in Somalia will solve the piracy. We already put enough money into the country to resolve most of the issues, we just need to be doing it in the right way.
We have the technology to delivery payloads to targets. Can't we fill 'old boats' with food, water filters, shelters. Delivered direct to the people with the message that these will only be repeated on certain conditions.
It won't cost us any more, it might save many lives. And the payload can't be transfered to a Swiss Bank Account.
__________________

__________________
Ex Prout 31 Sailor, Now it's a 22ft Jaguar called 'Arfur' here in sunny Southampton, UK.
A few places left in Quayside Marina and Kemps Marina.
Eleven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 07:45   #17
Registered User
 
Reckless's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario Canada
Boat: Edel 665 23' - Reckless
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Perhaps I am just having an attack of humanity…. but celebrating the death of Somali pirates (ex-fishermen) who to date have only been guilty of trying to feed their families by illegal means after their livelihoods have been removed … by equally illegal means…. seems a bit harsh.

I understand their motives better than Jack Sparrow’s

Don't consider it a celebration of death, more like Karma. While I disagree they should be line up and shot, the Russians gave them a fighting change, left it up to fate. They were given a fighting chance, maybe they made it maybe they didn't. Either way it sends a message that piracy will not be tolerated. I couldn't kill another person unless it was in the moment them or me, but if I regained control of a bad situation, I would do the same thing, here's some water, here's a flotation device, shore is that way, have a good day.

Regardless of ones personal situation using illegal means, harming or threatening to harm others is unacceptable. I do agree more needs to be done in Somalia, and many other places in the world, but Piracy isn't new, same with the drug trade, it is a quick and easy way to make money regardless of who it hurts.

It is the cowards way out, and they get what they deserve. The Russians didn't sentence them to death, the Russians left it up to Karma.

Perhaps the pirates disabled the radio beacon themselves so they couldn't be followed back to their base?
__________________

__________________
Reckless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 08:08   #18
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckless View Post
Slow leak in the inflatable would work well. Good on them. Put some fear into these pirates.
So THAT'S how they dispose of their defective equipment. Useful after all, one last time...

I like the Captain Bligh solution.
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 08:50   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Too bad people may have died - never good - for those who left them to die.

Then again, what were the choices? Judge them, find under age, feed, free, and wait till they come after you again.

The Ruskis had only bad choices, hard to expect them to deliver good solutions.

barnie
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 09:08   #20
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Perhaps I am just having an attack of humanity…. but celebrating the death of Somali pirates (ex-fishermen) who to date have only been guilty of trying to feed their families by illegal means after their livelihoods have been removed … by equally illegal means…. seems a bit harsh.

I understand their motives better than Jack Sparrow’s
With all due respect.

... "guilty of trying to feed their families"... by the way of killing other families' fathers and steeling other people's goods (NOT foods, mind you).

Steeling cargo and hijacking people for ransom - what do they have to do with 'feeding families' ??? To feed my family I need less than 10USD per day (family of 2), to feed theirs they demand tens of millions of USD. Is it because of the cultural differences in an average family size? Or is there any other, more plausible, explanation of this fact?

Well, I would guess, just as you worried - a sudden and unjustified fit of humanity.

I would not like all the people in the s.c. Western World who are poor and homeless and undernourished to come after me, my family or my home (boat). And based on your fit of reasoning - they would be well justified to do so. Somehow, they do not do it, and if they do, we do not justify them. I am talking stealing millions and killing, not snatching a loaf of bread from the corner grocery store.

And we do not know if the pirates died or not. We only know they disappeared from the radar. Remember Bligh.

Pirates are pirates are pirates.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 09:55   #21
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,573
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
With all due respect.

... "guilty of trying to feed their families"... by the way of killing other families' fathers ...
Whom have the Somali pirates actually killed?
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 10:43   #22
Registered User
 
fishwife's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South coast of England, moving around a bit.
Boat: Long range motor cruiser
Posts: 750
Gord beat me to raising the question. I've looked quite extensively and I can't find any mention of Somali pirates actually killing anyone. If someone can point me to a reference I'd be grateful.

I suspect, with good reason, that the pirates released by the Russians didn't survive but, the world generally gave up killing people for economic crimes quite a while ago.

I also suspect that if a group of people who hailed from Western nations were caught in the act of piracy, there would be a totally different response to any summary justice. I believe we call it lynching.

P.
__________________
The message is the journey, we are sure the answer lies in the destination. But in reality, there is no station, no place to arrive at once and for all. The joy of life is the trip, and the station is a dream that constantly out distances us”. Robert Hastings, The Station
fishwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:18   #23
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishwife View Post
I can't find any mention of Somali pirates actually killing anyone. If someone can point me to a reference I'd be grateful.

P.
I am trying to find a website where the current negotiations of all hostages are recorded. It makes interesting reading.

But these sites are good info:

nato NATO Shipping Centre (numnwsvwb2): Counter Piracy Operation Ocean Shield difficult to use site!

All the current reports: Live Piracy Report

There are lots of official websites out there so the information is there.

Fortunately I don't have to worry about it anymore!!!!!!!! Yippeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:25   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Madeira Beach, FL
Boat: Catalina 42'
Posts: 23
"Whom have the Somali pirates actually killed?"

BBC NEWS | Africa | Pirates 'kill' hostage in Somalia

I personally wouldn't call piracy on the high seas an "economic" crime. After all, they're using weapons to steal (and kill), not ink pens.
__________________
alaskamountainman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:36   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sailing from NC
Boat: 1999 IP40, Charbonneau
Posts: 82
I feel no remorse or guilt when a group of terrorist thugs is eliminated from this earth. Perhaps our "high ideals" prevent the US Military of responding in a similar fashion, but that does not imply the Russian method is wrong. Many behaviors carry stiff penalties including death, if caught. This group played the game and got caught by a military that can't be bothered with the "high ideals" that tie America's hands..or at least keep us wringing them because we must somehow be at fault.

For most of the world life is really simple: Do the crime...pay the fine! ...unless of course they are smart enough to only attack US or UK shipping.
__________________
bchaps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:39   #26
Registered User
 
SabreKai's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada on Lake Ontario
Boat: Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 1,287
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven View Post
There are some 400 to 500 hostages in Somalia.
We have the technology to delivery payloads to targets. Can't we fill 'old boats' with food, water filters, shelters. Delivered direct to the people with the message that these will only be repeated on certain conditions.
It won't cost us any more, it might save many lives. And the payload can't be transfered to a Swiss Bank Account.
Sadly the evidence proves otherwise. A large portion of relief supplies sent by other nations is grabbed and then resold by the same people who hold the various parts of the country hostage. They steal the donated food and resell it to their own people. Sending them a ship load of food would only A)give them supplies to last longer and B) a new source of income if they decide to sell it to their fellow countrymen in need.

For what its worth, I would think that the video of the two hostages would motivate the British government into laying on an SAS operation, but sadly Britain has no government worth talking about at the moment and there much larger things for them to worry about. Sadly the Chandlers are on their own. Perhaps someone should send the video to the Russians.

Sabre.
__________________
SabreKai
SV Sabre Dance, Roberts Offshore 38
http://sabredancing.wordpress.com/
SabreKai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:44   #27
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishwife View Post
the world generally gave up killing people for economic crimes quite a while ago.
And see where that has got us in recent times.............
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:48   #28
Registered User
 
97fxdwg's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Boat: Beneteau 41S5
Posts: 111
How has any form of appeasement or understanding the "enemies" plight ever helped? If a person is pointing a gun, an AK-47, whatever, at you, and you offer to feed his family, do you really think your offer will be taken? It's indeed sad that their culture, their poverty and their hopelessness has led them to this, but no matter what we offer them other than the demanded ransom, they will not stop. In my humble opinion, it's a Sad But True fact of life, and death.
__________________
97fxdwg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 11:52   #29
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Well said!
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 12:50   #30
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,573
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskamountainman View Post
"Whom have the Somali pirates actually killed?"
BBC NEWS | Africa | Pirates 'kill' hostage in Somalia
...
Thanks mountainman, I wasn't aware of that crime.

In 2007, Somali pirates killed Chen Tao, a 32 year old Chinese sailor, aboard the Ching Fong Hwa No. 168, a Taiwanese fishing ship.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiw.../17/2003388233
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Solution to Somali Pirates? HobieFan General Sailing Forum 56 10-12-2009 19:55
Interesting perspective on Somali pirates jackdale Indian Ocean & Red Sea 25 07-01-2009 04:28
French yacht seized by Somali pirates dennisjay Cruising News & Events 41 21-06-2008 15:42
Luxury Yacht hijacked by Somali pirates schoonerdog Off Topic Forum 23 05-04-2008 23:14



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.