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Old 01-11-2015, 10:06   #106
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

You can't fight city hall. If you are a registered resident you have a vote. If waterfront property owner want a ordinance I'm feel should they can get one even if it requires a public vote to pass. They vote and inland voters don't care so don't vote. A live aboard
Is probably not registered. 3% vote on the issue an 2.85% are waterfront owners. Ordinance passed.
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Old 01-11-2015, 10:51   #107
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

A lot of Florida voters own boats and like to anchor. A lot also don't give a damn about improving the view of some rich guy who's got a pretty nice house already.

The waterfront owners don't get to vote, the Florida legislators do (I bet most don't own waterfront property) And if Florida goes too far, the Feds will claim it restricts the Constitutional right of navigation and kill the law. It's happened before to Florida.

So let's stay away from "don't give them an inch" or "can't fight city hall". That's sure to lose. I'm on the way down the ICW in Florida and the derelict boat problem is as outrageous as last year.

Cruisers and derelict boats "have as much to do with each other as a hot dog and a warm puppy" *

* Extra points if you remember who said this.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:17   #108
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
A lot of Florida voters own boats and like to anchor. A lot also don't give a damn about improving the view of some rich guy who's got a pretty nice house already.

The waterfront owners don't get to vote, the Florida legislators do (I bet most don't own waterfront property) And if Florida goes too far, the Feds will claim it restricts the Constitutional right of navigation and kill the law. It's happened before to Florida.

So let's stay away from "don't give them an inch" or "can't fight city hall". That's sure to lose. I'm on the way down the ICW in Florida and the derelict boat problem is as outrageous as last year.

Cruisers and derelict boats "have as much to do with each other as a hot dog and a warm puppy" *

* Extra points if you remember who said this.
I guess I may have contributed to touching a nerve. Think about it. If it doesn't require a referendum, amass the people that vote for the city councilman or what even. Although they are probably not in it for the pittance of a salary. Make your selves heard other than here. Some Aussie may be empathetic but won't make a difference.
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:20   #109
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

Cadence,

I absolutely agree that discussions on this board does little good. But this has nothing to do with city councilors. It's at the state level. Although, I agree that's not much better

It's not really hitting a nerve. I just don't sit back and complain the system is rigged - because its not.

I've participated in several multi-year fights on different issues at a state level (not Florida) and won my share. Bismark's quote that "Laws are like sausage, it's better to not see them being made" seems about right. But this is how our system has worked since George Washington (actually state legislatures are much, much better run today than the 18th century)

I was pleased that BoatUS, SSCA, SSECN and many other organizations are in the fight on our side. We should support them. This is not a place for well meaning amateurs.

I sent the BoatUS government affairs group a little money and encouragement. I also fill out any survey or send any letter that these organizations suggest would help. Everyone on this board should do the same!

This thing could still come out all right, but only if we don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

Carl
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Old 01-11-2015, 13:42   #110
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
Cadence,

I absolutely agree that discussions on this board does little good. But this has nothing to do with city councilors. It's at the state level. Although, I agree that's not much better

It's not really hitting a nerve. I just don't sit back and complain the system is rigged - because its not.

I've participated in several multi-year fights on different issues at a state level (not Florida) and won my share. Bismark's quote that "Laws are like sausage, it's better to not see them being made" seems about right. But this is how our system has worked since George Washington (actually state legislatures are much, much better run today than the 18th century)

I was pleased that BoatUS, SSCA, SSECN and many other organizations are in the fight on our side. We should support them. This is not a place for well meaning amateurs.

I sent the BoatUS government affairs group a little money and encouragement. I also fill out any survey or send any letter that these organizations suggest would help. Everyone on this board should do the same!

This thing could still come out all right, but only if we don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

Carl
Carl.

I wish all you Floridians the best. I have only been treated well. Even got a free berth at a fuel dock over night. It was south Miami. I am not even sure what the fight is? Seems there should be some middle ground. I'm guessing sinking wet dreams is the problem? That is nothing we can do about. Maybe some legislation requiring someone check on a boat at a regular basis is it?


Roger Carl
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Old 01-11-2015, 16:53   #111
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

Just to stir the pot (At anchor in Lake Worth leaving in the morning) ...

"If a man neglects to enforce his rights, he cannot complain if, after a while, the law follows his example."
—Oliver Wendell Holmes

Seems to me to be an applicable quote... Several threads on this subject wit a jillion opinions (all of which are wrong except mine ) Just got done spending a week in Manatee Pocket with dire predictions from another thread that the locals were out with tar torches and pitchforks go get rid of the local "squatters" As the Solitaire is a small older working boat, we sure could have gotten classified as such, but no problem mon... Glad to see you, where you from? etc, etc...

Left this morning and passed the unfortunate wreckage of someones dream in the St Lucie Crossroads... Grounded 60' boat dedicated to charity and all gone wrong. Outside the channel so USCG will take charge of removing fuel, but Martin County gotta move the boat. Owners got no cash so gotta serve notice as derelict. Five days notice by law. (Big deal right) Cost, who knows but the local newspaper says (Martin County officials get cost estimate for boat removal from St. Lucie Inlet) Martin county has $258,000 in the derelict boat removal fund, budgets 100,000 per year, but the most they have spent is 70,000 (2013) in one year.

Dont wanna see new laws based on the BS of "derelict" boats when FL counties are not spending budgeted monies via existing laws to fix a non existent (relatively) problem

Meanwhile, I will anchor a Federally Documented Vessel in "navigable waterways" when I want, where I want until the harassment exceeds the pleasure of the surroundings. At which point I will take my money (such as it is) and spend it in friendlier surroundings.

Be dammed to you sir!
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Old 01-11-2015, 17:25   #112
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
Loss of Freedom? Police State? We're not going to win this fight with silly arguments like that. This is a classic case of inadequate regulation and enforcement causing a problem (derelict boats).
I think that is a convenient excuse that certain groups are using to divert attention away from those that most benefit financially from anchoring laws... public and private marinas.

We really need to follow the money and see if the most vocal minority has ties to the large marina companies. For example:

Seven Kings Holdings, Inc. - Diligent Developers, Managers and Investors in Real Estate

Quote:
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I have only been treated well. Even got a free berth at a fuel dock over night.
Of course you did... aren't you happy staying in our nice marina? Better be happy because there won't be another choice next year.
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Old 01-11-2015, 19:15   #113
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

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Police state? You were the one demanding security cameras at the dinghy dock!
Anchoring in Public Waters is a right and freedom they're talking about taking away from us, when we legally own it, as citizens of Florida!

Catching thieves stealing private property or dingy's is kind of a different issue isn't it?? I don't get the connection?
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Old 01-11-2015, 19:21   #114
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

The dinghy dock in St Augustine you were requesting cameras on is public city property. Just like "we get the government we deserve" saying; a heavily armed, paranoid populace gets a police state in return.
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Old 17-12-2015, 09:27   #115
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

Update for 2016:

HB 7025 "At risk vessels" .........introduced 12/2/2015:

Florida House of Representatives - HB 7025 - At-risk Vessels

Bill Text:

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sectio...5&Session=2016

A Senate version is soon to follow.
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:54   #116
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

Seems reasonable. Doubt if will keep the aforementioned "fat cats" happy.m
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:57   #117
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

No, but hopefully it just might shine a light on what the real issue is, as opposed to disallowing a cruiser to anchor for a night or two.
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Old 17-12-2015, 14:09   #118
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

HB 7025 does sound reasonable. Possible eliminating eye sores will make it better for all.
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Old 17-12-2015, 15:14   #119
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

Agreed, reasonable, but I wonder if those who want more restrictions will view this as "a small first step". I wonder how much the efforts of BOAT US impacted this wording .

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 17-12-2015, 15:53   #120
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Re: FL boaters get ready to fight again.....

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Agreed, reasonable, but I wonder if those who want more restrictions will view this as "a small first step". I wonder how much the efforts of BOAT US impacted this wording .

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
I don't have a dog in the Fl. fight but wording sounds straight forward. I was expecting pages of something no one could understand.
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