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Old 03-03-2011, 13:35   #16
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

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also, what is stopping them from killing all the pirates? what govt would actualy try to bring charges against them? Or, is there a crime (legaly, mortals aside), with striping the pirates of thier weapons and putting them on a motorless raft 200 NM out to sea?
Methinks that is exactly what the Russians did with the once they put through their "Catch and Release" program
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:37   #17
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

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also, what is stopping them from killing all the pirates?
What's that word? Morality, perhaps.

Would you really condone this sort of vigilante action? Where would you draw the line? Only shoot pirates who are over 14? Or who have developed an evil glint in their eye?

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what govt would actually try to bring charges against them?
Possibly Somalia...?
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:20   #18
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Unhappy Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

[I note the warning before one can post now and admit it slowed me down enough to drop the sarcasm I had in mind.]

Morality is a serious factor. And so is the need to do SOMETHING. I think westerners look at morality as a two way street. But that's not a universal view in my experience. The pirates evidently are not troubled by morality. Indeed, as shocking as it is that there are 750 hostages is the almost certain knowledge that many sailors have just disappeared.

Many of us could never pull the trigger but many of us could. Once the shooting starts, the line blurs...tough to tell the age of the kid shooting the AK at you. Few of us have the resources or room for a safe room or to hire mercenaries. And if Somalia had an effective government this probably wouldn't be a real issue.

So, SS, to your question as to condoning vigilante action: I soberly answer yes I do. Would I personally be able to shoot back to defend my boat and life? Yes, ma'm.
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Old 04-03-2011, 08:43   #19
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

In my mind everyone has the right to protect themselves and love ones along with their possessions at any time... I would use equal force including every weapon that the pirates had if I could obtain them and at some point if I was capable I would have weapons they didn't have...BUT than again I wouldn't knowly place myself or love ones in that situation to begin with.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:39   #20
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

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What's that word? Morality, perhaps.
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Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress View Post

Would you really condone this sort of vigilante action? Where would you draw the line? Only shoot pirates who are over 14? Or who have developed an evil glint in their eye?


Possibly Somalia...?



lol, that is why I tried to set the morality topic aside by saying, “morality aside"

for me morals go out the window when someone is trying to cause me or my family direct, violent, harm. Then is it a darwin/survival thing. I will do everything in my power to make sure me and my family come out on top. In a lot of these situations it boils down to the lowest common denominator, and trust me, somali pirates are about as low as it gets.



Would you really condone this sort of vigilante action?

yes and no. first, protecting your self during an attack is not vigilante. if they are harmed or die during the attack so be it.

vigilante would be turning the boat around, chasing them down and killing every last one of them - after they retreated. I would not personally do that, even if my equipment was capable. But I don't I would stop my spec ops escort from doing so if they started/wanted to.



“Possibly Somalia...?” really, you know they have not had a working govt in god knows how many years? That is like saying people will be tried in the court of Columbian drug lords.
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:51   #21
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

I don't quite agree about your definition of vigilante.
If you let a rapist/killer go because you managed to evade him and he goes on a killing spree later, the blood is on your hands as well, no?

Search for Williamson turn on this site.
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:06   #22
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

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Don't imagine the guys/gals over on the "$500 a month" thread will be interested in this service.
Good point. They're probably smart enough to avoid the Horn of Africa, altogether.

Geez. These people will do anything to save a buck!
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:27   #23
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

Glad to hear they were "rescued", and even better, they obviously had panned ahead for this possibility.

Personally, I'd like to know more about the "safe room" where they hid. A few details on construction, size, cost, etc. would be really nice. I know quite a few merchant ships have installed safe rooms on board, with the ability to disable the ships engines, and vital systems built inside the safe room.

I'd rather not get into a firefight with a well armed pirate or even intruder and having a place to wait for the authorities to arrive would be worth the wasted space.
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:00   #24
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

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Personally, I'd like to know more about the "safe room" where they hid. A few details on construction, size, cost, etc. would be really nice.
It is a 21m motor vessel. I have not heard, but am guessing they hid in the 'engine room'. In a Dutch vessel that size an engine room would probably have quite beefy metal fireproof doors and bulkheads.
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:13   #25
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Thumbs up Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

Finally some real and highly visible progress in addressing Somali piracy, I'm delighted to see some enterprising, right thinking people offer a much needed service. I hope they make million$ and treat the pirates with all the gentleness and dignity they deserve.
Jesse
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:50   #26
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Re: Dutch Couple on Yacht Pirated, and then Resuced!

Here is some interesting reading on the topic from the Yachting World site.

The 21m motoryacht Capricorn was on passage between Djibouti and India when it was approached by a fast skiff and boarded by six armed men.

The two crew on board, a captain and engineer, both Dutch, followed plans laid out in advance and retreated to a safe room (possibly the machinery room).

According to Thomas Jakobsson of Naval Guards Ltd, the Cardiff-based company employed to give the Capricorn an armed escort: "The pirates boarded the vessel firing shots. The escort boat was 50-100m away and after firing warning shots they were to manoeuvre into a position to fire directly at the pirates."

The escort boat, one of two military-looking 22m camouflaged fast craft capable of up to 14 knots currently in operation by the company (see the photo above), had six ex-Navy personnel on board.

During the exchange of fire, the pirates shot through the window of the escort boat and damaged some communications equipment, but there were no casualties.

The pirates fled in their skiff and returned to a mothership that could be seen nearby.

"When they are in their skiffs we cannot fire on them. They know that. They are definitely playing a smart game," says Jakobssen.

The same pirates were probably behind another attempted pirate attack some 90 minutes later on a ship 38 miles away.


According to the Maritime Liaison Office, or MARLO, an organisation that exchanges information between the US Navy, Combined Maritime Forces and merchant shipping, a skiff approached the ship but failed to board.

This latest incident on the motoryacht Capricorn is the third pirate attack on a yacht in the last two weeks. Four crew on the US yacht Quest were killed on 22 February after being captured and last week a Dutch crew including three children were taken and are now reported to be in captivity in Somalia.

As far as I can determine around 71 crews of private yachts were planning to cross the Indian Ocean and sail towards the Red Sea this month. Of those, most have made alternative arrangements as follows:


  • Transporting their yacht from Male, Maldives to Turkey - 15 yachts
  • Transporting their yacht from Salalah, Oman to the Med - 21 yachts
  • Turned around and headed towards South Africa - 3 yachts
  • Turned around and will stay in SE Asia at least another year - 8 yachts
  • Currently crossing the Indian Ocean, Gulf of Aden and Red Sea - 22 yachts
  • Hijacked at sea - 2 yachts
The option of an armed escort has been discussed among many of these cruising crews, from what I can understand, and been rejected.

Thomas Jakobsson from Naval Guards agrees it's not a good option for yachtsmen.

"The costs re too high - it's US$7,000 a day on average," he says. "The sensible solution for yachtsmen would be to put their boats on a cargo vessel and fly. Our service is more for commercial vessels."

He adds that the vulnerabilities of yachts - what military sources call ‘low and slow' - would make escorting a group "a nightmare."

"Compared to a ship it's very different trying to defend a 40ft sailboat doing six knots," he commented.

"For a group you would need at least two patrol boats and RIBs and you would need to stay close to the coast. These pirates travel at 23 knots so you only get minutes of warning and you couldn't risk shooting through sailboats."

Jakobsson says that during a year operating an armed escort service this week's incident is the first time his guards have had to fire a shot.

"It shows the desperation of the pirates. They are prepared to gamble a bit," he says. "This was a very desperate attack. Possibly they were on their way back To Somali with nothing."

What is interesting - looks that there is some kind of ROE in existence, limiting action against pirates to the very moment when they are actually on board of attacked vessel. With such a ROE's (not very understandable for me) there is rather not a great hope for putting piracy to the quick end in the area.

Best regards

Tomasz
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