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Old 30-08-2015, 16:20   #16
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

So, what's the downside to the cop if he does give you the ticket? He doesn't have to post bail, defend himself, or even show up to court. You do.
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Old 30-08-2015, 16:43   #17
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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Originally Posted by LeLY View Post
I highly doubt, unless you were giving the cop a reason, a cop is just going to motor up and arrest you.
You haven't been in FL, have you?

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Old 30-08-2015, 16:45   #18
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

If you press the point, you countercharge harassment and get a settlement. Meanwhile you can keep insisting until he gets an official reprimand on his record, is pulled off field duty, and is sent out for formal retraining. And cite him for misfeasance of duty, or malfeasance, whichever is appropriate to the guy.


Of course in Florida he could get all that and still be nominated "Officer of the Year." No offense to the pros down there, but standards aren't known for being especially high.


But you will have to keep on pressing.
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Old 30-08-2015, 16:59   #19
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

BTW in florida law to "Operate" a vessel is a specifically defined term:

(30) “Operate” means to be in charge of, in command of, or in actual physical control of a vessel upon the waters of this state, to exercise control over or to have responsibility for a vessel’s navigation or safety while the vessel is underway upon the waters of this state, or to control or steer a vessel being towed by another vessel upon the waters of the state.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

There is apparently some history behind the law defining "operate" in this broad way . . . "The Florida Legislature was prompted to amend the definition of operate to go beyond only driving/steering the boat due to a tragic case in 1998 in Volusia County where a man driving a boat left the steering wheel to go to the bathroom off the back of the boat which caused the boat to crash, killing a young girl who was a passenger on his boat. As such, the law may consider you to be operating the boat, even if you weren’t actually driving the boat."

Who Is The Operator? – Unlike a car, a boat can be “operated” without a driver. Who gets charged with a BUI if no one is at the Helm but everyone on board is intoxicated? If the officer can’t tell who is in charge,
The owner of the boat is considered the “operator”, or
The person who rented or borrowed the boat, or
The person giving orders to the others on board; or
Anyone in control of the boat.

and, we are know (or should know) . . . "A police officer must have probable cause to stop a motor vehicle. However, police offers may stop and board a vessel for nearly any reason, such as enforcing safety regulations and checking registration. Unlike with motor vehicles, a police officer is not required to have reasonable suspicion of a criminal act to stop and board a vessel."
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Old 30-08-2015, 17:00   #20
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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Originally Posted by timbenner View Post


When I follow-up with "WAIT - I'm not driving, the boat is anchored", their reply is that the boat could drag anchor, then I would be "Driving While Intoxicated".
So if I'm at a campground in my camper, it would be DUI because it's possible if the jack stands failed the camper could potentially roll.

The potential to be in violation of the law is not the same as being in violation of the law. I can't speak to the actual FL law, but his reasoning makes no sense to me.

It's like saying, I'm giving you a ticket for speeding, because if you went faster you would in fact be speeding.
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Old 30-08-2015, 17:01   #21
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

Bui while at anchor simply sounds stupid to me. It seems 85% of the boaters could be in jeopardy of this ticket
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Old 30-08-2015, 17:01   #22
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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If you press the point, you countercharge harassment and get a settlement. Meanwhile you can keep insisting until he gets an official reprimand on his record, is pulled off field duty, and is sent out for formal retraining. And cite him for misfeasance of duty, or malfeasance, whichever is appropriate to the guy.


Of course in Florida he could get all that and still be nominated "Officer of the Year." No offense to the pros down there, but standards aren't known for being especially high.


But you will have to keep on pressing.
Hey now I said I could beat the DUI... Not win a war.
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Old 30-08-2015, 17:08   #23
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
BTW in florida law to "Operate" a vessel is a specifically defined term:

(30) “Operate” means to be in charge of, in command of, or in actual physical control of a vessel upon the waters of this state, to exercise control over or to have responsibility for a vessel’s navigation or safety while the vessel is underway upon the waters of this state, or to control or steer a vessel being towed by another vessel upon the waters of the state.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
It would seem that if one had the proper not under command day shapes or lights and you were at anchor then you would be free and clear.
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Old 30-08-2015, 17:08   #24
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
BTW in florida law "Operate a vessel" is a specifically defined term:

(30) “Operate” means to be in charge of, in command of, or in actual physical control of a vessel upon the waters of this state, to exercise control over or to have responsibility for a vessel’s navigation or safety while the vessel is underway upon the waters of this state, or to control or steer a vessel being towed by another vessel upon the waters of the state.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
As stated above, ANY of those conditions constitutes operating. It's not "all"or "and" but "or". Each phrase stands separately. Consequently, some of you may not like what police told the OP but that doesn't change the law.

If you want to know what the legal requirements for boating, you can ask the marine police or ask on the Internet. Which is more reliable? (Rhetorical question).

And the above is not unique to Florida.
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Old 30-08-2015, 17:29   #25
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

if you have a cabin and bathroom on board. it's your house. if you're in a CC then you can't have any..


same as RV vs car.
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Old 30-08-2015, 17:43   #26
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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if you have a cabin and bathroom on board. it's your house. if you're in a CC then you can't have any..


same as RV vs car.
No, the law does not say that at all. A boat is a boat, and not a house, and the DUI law applies whether it has a cabin and bathroom or not.

Now there is a very specific definition in florida law for a house boat: "(15) “Houseboat” means a vessel that is used primarily as a residence for at least 21 days during any 30-day period in a county of this state if such residential use of the vessel is to the preclusion of its use as a means of transportation." It could be that you can't DUI in such a house boat, but even that is not absolutely crystal clear.
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Old 30-08-2015, 18:03   #27
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
No, the law does not say that at all. A boat is a boat, and not a house, and the DUI law applies whether it has a cabin and bathroom or not.

Now there is a very specific definition in florida law for a house boat: "(15) “Houseboat” means a vessel that is used primarily as a residence for at least 21 days during any 30-day period in a county of this state if such residential use of the vessel is to the preclusion of its use as a means of transportation." It could be that you can't DUI in such a house boat, but even that is not absolutely crystal clear.
Federal law says it's a home for tax purposes if it has sleeping, cooking, and bathroom facilities. One might try that in court, but I doubt that would help. Once upon a time I lived in a free countryWhere one had to be actually driving to get a dui and there was no such thing as parking under the influence. If I get on a jury and the boater was at anchor or the driver was parked they are guarenteed to get a hung jury at worst.
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Old 30-08-2015, 18:06   #28
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Tim-
You'll have to look up the exact wording of the FL DUI statutes, which should be online in the "Florida Statutes" as last amended in July.


If you're sleeping off a few drinks in the back of your car and the keys can be found by someone poking around in it...that's usually grounds for a DUI or similar conviction, simply because you had access to the keys and the vehicle. So logically...


And especially if you weren't flying the lights or day shape for "Vessel not under command", which implies it WAS still under command. By the man with the drink in his hand.


Problem being, even when anchored, sometimes someone might have to do something, well, sailor-ish.


Two sides to that coin.
"Vessel not under command" has a very particular meaning, and would not apply in this case.

Rule 3(General definitions)

Applying the Rule(s) and comments:

In accordance with Rule 3(f) (General definitions) the term “ vessel not under command” means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

Comments:
Exceptional circumstances are: steering gear failure, engine failure, electrical supply system failure, fire, flooding, uncontrollable cargo shifting and stability issue

Source:

http://www.ecolregs.com/index.php?op...id=505&lang=en



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Old 30-08-2015, 18:14   #29
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

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Federal law says it's a home for tax purposes if it has sleeping, cooking, and bathroom facilities. One might try that in court, but I doubt that would help. Once upon a time I lived in a free countryWhere one had to be actually driving to get a dui and there was no such thing as parking under the influence. If I get on a jury and the boater was at anchor or the driver was parked they are guarenteed to get a hung jury at worst.
Those were the days. I remember them well! When I moved to Texas in 1979, it was LEGAL to drink and drive (open bottle of booze between your legs). Just don't be "over the limit". A sane country with honor towards fellow man. I sat at a stoplight in downtown Austin at around 5:00 PM. Glancing to my left outside my open window, I see an Austin cop car also waiting at the light. He looked at me, and I at him. I then took a swig off my OPEN bottle of Lone Star beer while looking at him, and then smiled. He nodded approval, and smiled back. Then the light changed and we were on our respective ways. Glorious days they truly were. In fact, Austin had "drive through" liquor stores. Just like McDonalds, only when you pull up you could either order a six pack, OR HAND THEM AN EMPTY BEER PITCHER AND THEY WOULD FILL IT WITH DRAFT BEER!!! Wonderful.

Today? America? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No thanks!! Sayonara!

Ps; Here in Japan there are beer vending machines on every corner. It's completely legal to walk down the street with an open bottle of ANYTHING. In fact, no problem drinking beer on buses, trains, etc. Gotta love it!

USA = Land of the free? hahahaha
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Old 30-08-2015, 18:16   #30
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Re: DUI WHILE AT ANCHOR??

"while the vessel is underway upon the waters of this state,"

"While the vessel is underway", which sounds like driving. This is what upset me about the officers insistence that they would give you a DUI while at anchor!! Not one officer, but several I asked. Ask one yourself. It's their zealous "bust everyone for everything" mandate! Not the Country I grew up in, but the Country I'm now living in. Now I understand why we have the 2nd Amendment.
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