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Old 01-09-2015, 14:29   #181
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

Maybe I'm a milk toast that maybe should have gone to the poky more than once. I just can't see the bashing of law enforcement.
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Old 01-09-2015, 14:35   #182
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

About the only part of that which is curious is the "responsibly drunk" phrase.

As there are degrees to both responsibility and drunk, how do you objectively measure that condition to ensure you aren't endangering others?

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Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
I often enjoy a nice cup of Colombian coffee or a lemon iced tea. Sometimes a ginger ale or a glass of milk just hits the spot. However, after working long and hard to attain the station in life where I can also opt for a single-malt Scotch paired with a fine Cuban cigar, I personally abhor the gall of some authority figure attempting to instruct me on my choices in life. Thus, I consider it my "human right" to detest any encroachment on my personal pursuit of happiness while on my boat at anchor, or otherwise, for that matter. Should at any time I choose to have more than one and be well over the "legal limit", then there I shall gladly sail. Just like my parents' generation did, and theirs before them. It's often very fun to be responsibly drunk.

"Stupidity", I leave for other people to explore and navigate.
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Old 01-09-2015, 14:38   #183
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

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Please point to the place in the OP where it said "incoherent, hammered, and dragging anchor".

The original was about a BUI at anchor with a steak on the grill and a drink in your hand.
Read what I said, that is the point. I took it as grilling with a drink in your hand and a question about getting a BUI not that someone had.
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Old 01-09-2015, 14:38   #184
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

Most laws happen after someone does something so stupid that the community feels or says: "There should be a law against that."

Then the legislators make a law.

Then the enforcement authorities are given a mandate to enforce that law.

If you look at the last two years of accident reports (in mainstream media, online) for Miami and that area, you will quickly find mention of boating accidents that caused the deaths of innocent people. In other words, someone on a boat killed someone else (usually on a boat) by some act of negligence or high speed operating or loss of control (usually after suspected drinking).

If one looks at the news reports you can see the mention of the "hundreds" of drunk revelers/boaters who "race as quickly as possible" to return from the "sand bar parties and DJ sponsored festivals" (where there is widespread heavy drinking, akin to frat parties) to their boat ramps and docks at the end of the event.

So, like state troopers do when there is a "holiday weekend" the boating LEOs are more vigilant and more active because there are more people on the water then and the likelihood is that after a day of drinking and boating, there will be "operators" aboard who are impaired, even if they are temporarily "at anchor."

In 2014, a serious accident involving a 23 year old skipper (of one of these returning) boats happened at night, resulting in two deaths.

In another incident the "DJ" who sponsored one even killed a young man who was in the water trying to help the DJ get his boat off the sandbar, his outboard killed the man in the water (who the DJ claimed he did not see).

It is incidents like those where there are MANY (hundreds of boats) participating in heavy drinking, hundreds if not thousands of people intoxicated, and "at anchor" (temporarily until the event is over and they then race back to some marina) on some sand bar party location that are in the news, get the attention, and have led to deadly accidents.

So, I see it as clearly understandable that the local community leaders and law enforcement say "enough is enough" and they find some way to caution, warn, and then cite those who are in violation of the law.

______________

Some quotes:
Miami-Dade Led Florida in Number of Boat Accidents in 2014 | Miami New Times
In 2014, a number of high-profile boat accidents made news in Miami-Dade. There was the Fourth of July weekend boating accident that claimed the lives of four people, and an incident involving a boat driven by radio mainstay DJ Laz. His Voli Vodka-sponsored boat got stuck on a sandbar, and a man was killed when he got caught in the propeller while trying to free it. But even beyond those high-profile incidents, boating accidents are stunningly common in Miami.

In fact, according to new numbers released by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Miami-Dade County lead the state in number of boating accidents, and that's not just by sheer numbers but also by number of accidents per registered vessels.

In 2014, there were 79 boating accidents in Miami-Dade. Ten people died between them, and 47 people were injured. The number of fatalities are up from 2013 when four people died, but the number of injuries is down slightly from 50.

In the entire state of Florida there were 634 accidents with 73 boating related deaths.

That works out to one accident per every 804 registered vessels in the county, and the total estimated property damage was $2.2 million.

Twenty-five of those accidents were collisions with other vessels, 19 were flooding, and six were a collision with a fixed object.
_____________
Another Bloody Boat Crash Brings Biscayne Bay Death Count to Seven So Far in 2014 | Miami New Times
Another holiday weekend. Another boating death on Biscayne Bay.

In what is becoming a sick refrain in this city, a young woman was killed on Saturday when one boat struck another in Biscayne Bay.

The Columbus Day weekend collision follows several other similar accidents, including a brutal July 4 crash that killed four, and raises to seven the number of people killed this year on Biscayne Bay.

The deadly accident occurred despite increased safety measures in the wake of previous water calamities. On July 4, a boozy, three-boat collision killed four young Miamians. Two months earlier, a 23-year-old security guard was sucked into the propellers of a boat driven by local celebrity DJ Laz.

The two incidents spurred authorities to launch a special task force to crack down on drunken and dangerous boating.
____________
Two photos in the state report depict an anchored 30-foot sailboat impaled by a 16-foot open fisherman boat in Newfound Harbor off Big Pine Key in June accident.

"It's Safe Boating Week but safety is always the top priority on any day in the Keys," Dube said. "Have a designated boat operator because there is zero tolerance for boating under the influence. Make sure to check the boat for required safety gear."

Miami-Dade had a state-high 79 accidents with $2.2 million in damage. Pinellas County near Tampa was third with 53 accidents and four on-the-water deaths.

Nationally, the U.S. Coast Guard logged 610 boating deaths in 2014 and no state had more than Florida. California was second with 38 deaths.

Other statistics from the 2014 FWC report:

May is the highest month for boating accidents (90 in 2014).
Drowning is the leading cause of deaths in fatal boating accidents.
Alcohol use or drug use was linked to 12 percent of fatal accidents.
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Old 01-09-2015, 15:08   #185
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

Can anyone actually find documentation of an accident caused by someone at anchor sober or drunk? I would submit that people who are intoxicated and fall overboard and drown could have easily done so in their own swimming pool, off their own dock, or seawall. Being on a boat is irrelavent and did not cause the accident any more than the the house is at fault for a drunk drowning in their own swimming pool. In the examples cited I seriously doubt that the impaired person was on the boat that was impaled. I think this is simply a revenue generation device to fund bloated police forces. Florida law states that state and local LEOs need probable cause to board or be allowed to board to inspect permanently installed MSDs. In the instances that I am aware of the officers boarded without permission and did not even ask prior to boarding if the vessel had permanently installed MSD/Heads. Since all legal requirements can be met with portable devices one would presummably need to ascertain that there were permanently installed heads/MSDs on board before legally boarding. The Coast Guard and Customs and immigration of course can board any time, but not so for Fl LEOs, nor in fact any other federal law enforcement agency.
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Old 01-09-2015, 15:20   #186
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

Another recent article points out that the LEO have little ability to control some of the huge drinking parties that occur on the sand bars in the Florida Keys.

The local residents, have complained about the noise, litter, etc.

No federal action to be taken on offshore party spots. Council votes to urge more local, state enforcement | Environment | KeysNet
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Old 01-09-2015, 16:55   #187
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

For those citing the above fatality/injury statistics, how many such accidents involved anchored sailboats as the active participant? Using mobs of drunken small motor boat operators as an excuse for boarding and ticketing legally anchored yachts is pretty specious in my eyes.

The last time I looked at the CG accident statistics, sailboats, including boats under way, constituted a TINY fraction of the total. Extrapolating that to anchored yachts is beyond reality.

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Old 01-09-2015, 17:03   #188
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
About the only part of that which is curious is the "responsibly drunk" phrase.

As there are degrees to both responsibility and drunk, how do you objectively measure that condition to ensure you aren't endangering others?
How? Years of experience. Like with all other aspects of life, there are amateurs and there are professionals. Drinking alcohol, included. Some folks have trouble walking while simultaneously chewing gum. It's really that simple.
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Old 01-09-2015, 19:46   #189
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
For those citing the above fatality/injury statistics, how many such accidents involved anchored sailboats as the active participant? Using mobs of drunken small motor boat operators as an excuse for boarding and ticketing legally anchored yachts is pretty specious in my eyes.

The last time I looked at the CG accident statistics, sailboats, including boats under way, constituted a TINY fraction of the total. Extrapolating that to anchored yachts is beyond reality.

Jim
Jim,

I don't know those statistics.

But, I suspect the real reason for the laws and the increased LEO enforcement is to reduce the number of boating accidents and I would not expect anchored sailboats to be the primary targets of the BUI checks.

IF a boater (OP?) asks a LEO if drinking while at anchor is a violation, I suspect the LEO would likely say "yes" because he has been told by the higher ups that there will be "no tolerance" for boat operators to be drunk or drinking while operating the boat (and that might include those temporarily anchored in those big parties).

I suspect that the thread has focused on sailors (since the forum seems to be mostly sailors) but that the LEOs will probably be focused on small craft (small motor boats with lots of drinking people aboard) or personal water craft (which recently killed some people in Florida).
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Old 01-09-2015, 20:52   #190
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

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Impaired to some is sauntering effortlessly for others. But, there's no side-stepping the fact that it does take some practice. The key to happiness in life is knowing your limitations. Some folks like to skydive, yet you won't find me within 5 miles of any parachute.

0.08 BAC feels like, well... "just getting started".
I assume you are joking. If not, then you have been too impaired to realize that 1) you are, in fact, endangering others, 2) you may well be annoying them, too, 3) everyone, in fact, has noticed, 3) you are in the category of folks who cause the most accidents on boats, 4) as in the generations before us that you mentioned, there are lots of alcoholics who rationalize their problems and lives away, and leave the wreckage in someone else's lap.

You will probably disagree, and I understand that and am not trying to convince you. But I am trying to point out the fallacy of your statements for others.
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Old 01-09-2015, 21:07   #191
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

Theoretical legal question.

If you found yourself embarrassed by an LEO inspection at anchor and you were obviously way over the limit..... could you claim that you consumed the alcohol for medicinal reasons?

You suffered a severely painful lower back muscle spasm and with no pain killers or muscle relaxant on board.....you had no choice but to use alcohol.

I actually had to do that once.
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Old 01-09-2015, 21:25   #192
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

Let's party!. Besides, we're securely docked.



Different boat:

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Old 01-09-2015, 22:39   #193
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

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I assume you are joking. If not, then you have been too impaired to realize that 1) you are, in fact, endangering others, 2) you may well be annoying them, too, 3) everyone, in fact, has noticed, 3) you are in the category of folks who cause the most accidents on boats, 4) as in the generations before us that you mentioned, there are lots of alcoholics who rationalize their problems and lives away, and leave the wreckage in someone else's lap.



You will probably disagree, and I understand that and am not trying to convince you. But I am trying to point out the fallacy of your statements for others.

You are quite the party animal!!!. On another note.....If I ever found myself in the predicament of getting a DUI while at anchor for the night, well then.........i am just a bit crazy. Sux to be the Leo.


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Old 02-09-2015, 00:29   #194
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

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I assume you are joking. If not, then you have been too impaired to realize that 1) you are, in fact, endangering others, 2) you may well be annoying them, too, 3) everyone, in fact, has noticed, 3) you are in the category of folks who cause the most accidents on boats, 4) as in the generations before us that you mentioned, there are lots of alcoholics who rationalize their problems and lives away, and leave the wreckage in someone else's lap.

You will probably disagree, and I understand that and am not trying to convince you. But I am trying to point out the fallacy of your statements for others.
The world is indeed black and white! Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise. There is NO gray area! You're either Pope Francis, or Chris Holmes. There is no middle ground.

We all know The Pope, yet here is 4 minutes of Chris Holmes having fun in the water. Enjoy!

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Old 02-09-2015, 01:18   #195
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Re: DUI While at Anchor?

What an interesting thread

I'm going to add my two cents worth without having read the entire thread. I skimmed through the pages and that's it. And I add my comments from the perspective of a former cop sometimes doing marine duties.

Firstly, the question heavily depends not only on what country your travelling in, but what state or jurisdiction of that country you are in.

DUI refers to 'driving under the influence' and is not just drinking or consuming alcohol so that your over the prescribed limit. I'm guessing that's the same where.

Now, here, in Australia, you don't 'drive' a boat, you operate one. So an offence of 'operating a vessel under the influence' is the equivalent of DUI of a vehicle, but an operator is the person in charge, or the responsible person.

Now, for the proof needed for a charge of 'operating a vessel under the influence', the police have to have observational evidence that the person responsible for operating the vessel is 'affected' (influenced) by the substance so accused to the extent that they can't operate the vessel safely. That's the same as the proof needed for a car.

In addition to the DUI equivalent for a boat, you have an offence for exceeding the prescribed limit. In my little state it's the same as a car of 0.05. Commercial operators are not permitted any limit.

And to the question about when someone can be tested. Again, over here it depends on the legislation. But generally if someone is at anchor they are still operating the vessel and it's still at sea. So whoever the responsible person is needs to remain under the limit and capable of operating the vessel. Not so when docked. But referencing the Colregs, a vessel at anchor should still be able to be moved and take evasive action if a collision is inevitable. You can't just ignore an imminent collision because your at anchor.

Well, that's my bit.
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