Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooling

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Quick by which baseline?

Take your pick. The last hundred odd years is a definite spike, why?

No volcanoes, no asteroids. Solar variation doesn't cut it.

You can't answer (you haven't even tried) without adding in human activities, if you look to science anyway.

The question isn't if but how much.

[SailOar]

I think I've discovered why we are not able to resolve our differences about AGW. Wrong Forum!

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Quick by which baseline?

Take your pick. The last hundred odd years is a definite spike, why?

No volcanoes, no asteroids. Solar variation doesn't cut it.

You can't answer (as you know, you haven't even tried) without adding in human activities, if you look to science anyway.

The question isn't if but how much.

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by newhaul

... As an aside you do realise that electric heat is the most energy efficient form of heating ( not the cheapest but the most efficient form at 100% efficient)

Depending on the type of heat pump and the ambient temperature, heat pumps can be 2x to 7x as efficient as electrical resistance heaters, plus they can be used to cool as well as heat.

[SailOar]

In Texas Oil Country, Wind Is Straining the Grid | MIT Technology Review

A new $8 billion electricity transmission system is now complete, but it’s already nearing maximum capacity.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by conachair

Take your pick. The last hundred odd years is a definite spike, why?

No volcanoes, no asteroids. Solar variation doesn't cut it.

You can't answer (you haven't even tried) without adding in human activities, if you look to science anyway.

The question isn't if but how much.

Keeping in mind I'm not debating global warming per se, only the consequences, I'll present a graphical display for your amusement.

http://a-sceptical-mind.com/wp-conte...mperatures.jpg

http://a-sceptical-mind.com/wp-conte...te-Optimum.jpg

Therefore, my answer to you is that the spike of your infatuation is a rebound from the colder than average little ice age. And like all things in Earth's climatic past it is neither extraordinary or unique in rate of change.

Now a question for you. What caused the medieval warm periods and little ice age?

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[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by newhaul

... I'm not going back to quote you but here are a couple of considerations
Many of the people I know of in the fixed income bracket live in homes that are setup with electric heat and to convert to any other form is cost prohibitive . As an aside you do realise that electric heat is the most energy efficient form of heating ( not the cheapest but the most efficient form at 100% efficient)

Again, fair observations, but I think you'll find that in most jurisdictions they've either carved out an exception for electric heat in the pricing thing, or they've provided subsidy or tax relief to those who would genuinely suffer from a change in energy price. Our province is doing the latter.

Electric heat is not as efficient when you consider conversion loss from generation (eg heat to electricity) and transmission line losses. Might be around 60% or less (my estimate).

[Reefmagnet]

I'm confused. Why are heaters needed in a greenhouse warmed world?

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[SailOar]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

I'm confused.

A frequent problem of yours.

Why are heaters needed in a greenhouse warmed world?

It's not unusual for greenhouses to have heaters.

Greenhouse Heaters, Modine Heaters, Propane Heater, Natural Gas Heater, Portable Greenhouse Heaters, Grow House Heaters, Blue Flame Heater, Small Greenhouse Heater - Growers Supply

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by SailOar

A frequent problem of yours.

It's not unusual for greenhouses to have heaters.

Greenhouse Heaters, Modine Heaters, Propane Heater, Natural Gas Heater, Portable Greenhouse Heaters, Grow House Heaters, Blue Flame Heater, Small Greenhouse Heater - Growers Supply

Irony is wasted on you.

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[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Again, fair observations, but I think you'll find that in most jurisdictions they've either carved out an exception for electric heat in the pricing thing, or they've provided subsidy or tax relief to those who would genuinely suffer from a change in energy price. Our province is doing the latter.

Electric heat is not as efficient when you consider conversion loss from generation (eg heat to electricity) and transmission line losses. Might be around 60% or less (my estimate).

OK I will concede that point about cradle to grave efficiency . I am just referring to the consumer cost 100% of the electricity that is put into the resistance elements is converted to heat . ( and that's what we pay for directly. Everyone pays indirectly for the energy losses in the generation/transmission of said power . )

[StuM]

Originally Posted by SailOar

A frequent problem of yours.

It's not unusual for greenhouses to have heaters.

Greenhouse Heaters, Modine Heaters, Propane Heater, Natural Gas Heater, Portable Greenhouse Heaters, Grow House Heaters, Blue Flame Heater, Small Greenhouse Heater - Growers Supply

Maybe that's because plants thrive in warmer environments.

I don't see too many greenhouse coolers for sale.

Tell us again about that disastrous forecast of a couple of degrees of global warming.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by conachair

Take your pick. The last hundred odd years is a definite spike, why?

No volcanoes, no asteroids. Solar variation doesn't cut it.

You can't answer (you haven't even tried) without adding in human activities, if you look to science anyway.

The question isn't if but how much.

Sorry but untrue. Volcanoes going off all over the place. And please enlighten us why solar variations don't have an effect on climate.

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by StuM

Maybe that's because plants thrive in warmer environments.

I don't see too many greenhouse coolers for sale.

Tell us again about that disastrous forecast of a couple of degrees of global warming.

You Deniers are hopelessly ignorant and helplessly ossified.

Greenhouse Fans & Cooling

PS
Note that they also sell CO2 generators for use in greenhouses.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by SailOar

A frequent problem of yours.

It's not unusual for greenhouses to have heaters.

Greenhouse Heaters, Modine Heaters, Propane Heater, Natural Gas Heater, Portable Greenhouse Heaters, Grow House Heaters, Blue Flame Heater, Small Greenhouse Heater - Growers Supply

Since you raised the issue of greenhouses. Funny how greenhouses are used to accelerate the growth of plants. And we all know that plants with those big Green leaves produce a lot oxygen. In fact they absorb Co2 and emit oxygen.

Instead of Governments trying to use greenhouse gas hysteria to extract more taxes why don't they put their collective minds and resources into reforestation accross the planet.

I have seen what Israel has done in turning desert into green fields and forests. Why not do this on a much larger scale in places like Nevada, Texas and Wyoming. As an example.

Why I'm against irrational and unsubstantiated hysteria masquerading as science I am a true environmentalist who believes a lot of good can come from greening the planet. And when I say greening the planet I don't mean being part of the communist green party who only attack the west while letting their brother comrades and fellow travelers off the hook.

Clean water, clean air and lots more trees. I'm all for it.