Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooling

[Foozinator]

[fatherchronica]

A lot of people don't remember that when Rush Limbaugh was a local DJ in California he had to report on the weather. What does he say about chemtrails?

[alctel]

Originally Posted by StuM

Now that's some Baloney. First time I've heard this specific bit of alarmist nonsense.


Which boffins would they be? And what records would they be. Over what period?

There are four primary temperature data sets that I am aware of.

Even the most alarmist, adjusted one GISTEMP doesn't show anything of the sort:

Wood for Trees: Interactive Graphs

and the more reliable satellite records show a far less alarming picture:

Wood for Trees: Interactive Graphs


Reference please?

Ya can't just cherry pick data like that

From your own site you can clearly see the mean temp rise (even though that is a averaged generalised figure - the nature of this thing means that shifting currents will mean that some places get colder and some places get a lot warmer)

Wood for Trees: Interactive Graphs

More worrying the sea temp as well is just shooting up, actually more so than the atmosphere and the land.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/glob...termediate.htm

The artic sea ice is vanishing which is really worrying since there is a TON of methene locked up there, and once that starts melting we are heaps of trouble.

Wood for Trees: Interactive Graphs

The ocean level has increased dramatically in the last century - and the rate has doubled in the last decade.

There are so many data points/plots showing a massive increase in warmth that to say otherwise is literally burying your head in the sand.

There is something like a 97% consensus on climate change in the scientific community.

Even NASA got so fed up with paid organisations spreading this 'it's not man made!' crap they put together a webpage. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Unless you think that NASA, all the major science journals, tens of thousands of scientists and all the major universities are all somehow in on a huge scam.

Or maybe oil companies are funding a massive PR push

The fact the whole thing became so political is absolutely ridiculous

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Here, you need to hang out on this site for a while. Its where we heretics including the non-government funded scientists conduct peer review. Its also where you find that NOAA and NASA have been cooking the books and how. If stuff doesn't make sense, follow the money. Remember, it was only 12,000 years ago that the Midwest was under 6000 feet of ice. We have been experiencing ablation since then. When that pendulum swings the other way it will be with vengeance. Enjoy the Inter-glacial while it lasts.
Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change

LOL, all you're saying is that there are idiots everywhere. Why should this forum be any different?

There is absolutely NO proof that your car is spewing carbon into the air, "government sponsored scientists" be damned.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

The current doom and gloom seems to think that temperature may rise (or from your data fall) by x degrees this century.

Personally I'm more concerned with human induced destruction I can see now. Overfishing, over tourism, rampant consumerism, stupid bureaucracy, obstinance against renewable and off grid energy.

If sea water temps do rise I'll guess i'll be concerned about ocean acidification. As I have a fibreglass vessel with epoxy below the waterline I'll only be concerned about the metal bits immersed in sea water.

Unfortunately the complete set of facts about (insert trendy or doomsday chemical compound here) is incomplete.

Firstly because the scientifically untrained media, bureaucrats and dumbed down minority groups pick and chose which facts they like.

Secondly because climate science is a very complex adaptive system which behaves like a wicked problem.

We cant even predict the weather out more than a few days. So you certainly cant convince me that we'll experience x in 50 or 100 years. There are many overlapping climate cycles which act in indeterminate ways.

Wicked problems get solved iteratively and constantly morph into different problems. So the way to tackle climate change is to start now, start small and solve clearly defined problems that exist today. It also involves disrupting the status quo.

For example Australia banging on about solving climate change by introducing a carbon tax is ludicrous when the country is trying to dump its coal and iron ore on the rest of the world.

Climate related undesirable climate change will only be solved by science and engineering. Not by politics, economic or tax shape shifting.

There will also be desirable climate change. New coral reefs, sun filled resorts in Siberia, new coastlines and opportunities to make a killing in seaside property, increased crop yields and redistributed rainfall in arid areas...


Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Double ditto on what you just said. The biggest immediate problem we have on this earth is the limited resources we are consuming at an exponential rate. "We'll never run out of cod (insert buffalo, salmon, crabs, oil, water as needed)", and, the poisons we are dumping into the whole system. I'm not that worried about global warming anymore than I worry about dying. Both will happen sometime and I won't have much say about either. The next ice age will happen too, sometime. I believe the "governmental agencies" know as much about all this as do the "conspiracy" fanatics, i.e. not much. But there is only so much poop you can put in your backyard, and water you can take out of the water table, before it starts affecting you personally. Kinda hard to switch to fish instead of cow when the fish are gone. And you can't grow corn without clean water. Or raise cattle. Or flush the toilet.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

LOL, all you're saying is that there are idiots everywhere. Why should this forum be any different?

There is absolutely NO proof that your car is spewing carbon into the air, "government sponsored scientists" be damned.

Are you serious or are you kidding?? Go sit in your car, turn it on, close the garage door, and tell me about NO carbon in the air.

[SierraHiker]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

OK while they are talking about climate warming caused by C02 emissions, scientists are now warning about global cooling. And wait, thats not all. They are saying its because of the change in the activity from the Sun and not because of man made "pollution".

So now we are looking at Global Cooling I am so glad to be preparing for a life aboard a sailboat. I will be able to move to wherever the climate is most favorable and not stuck in some freezing part of the world. :big grin:

"If the World does get cold all over with some places turning to ice do we need to look at Arctic sailing preparations for our sailboats. Just thinking.
A team of European researchers have unveiled a scientific model showing that the Earth is likely to experience a “mini ice age” from 2030 to 2040 as a result of decreased solar activity.

Their findings will infuriate environmental campaigners who argue by 2030 we could be facing increased sea levels and flooding due to glacial melt at the poles.

Global warming 'is FAKE': Volume of ice caps is INCREASING, claims...
World will start COOLING DOWN in 2017, claims one of planet's top...

However, at the National Astronomy Meeting in Wales, Northumbria University professor Valentina Zharkova said fluctuations an 11-year cycle of solar activity the sun goes through would be responsible for a freeze, the like of which has not been experienced since the 1600s.

From 1645 to 1715 global temperatures dropped due to low solar activity so much that the planet experienced a 70-year ice age known as Maunder Minimum which saw the River Thames in London completely frozen."

There is absolutely no reasonable doubt about (1) the warming of Earth's atmosphere due to human release of CO2 since the 1880s and (2) the presence of massive glacial cycles of the past million or so years..the physical evidence for both there for anyone to see. The time scales are completely different and some scientists are talking about (1) and others (2). CO2 heating is a huge problem on the scale of 50 to 100 years. A cooler Earth due to the next glacial period is part of a 100,000 year cycle.

A warmer Earth due to CO2 release plays out in different ways in different places. Some places, like the Arctic, now see very rapidly increasing temperatures. In others, like the US NE, we see many cold spells caused by cold air being ejected southward from the Arctic and lots of warm spells in the southwestern US and North Pacific caused by massive poleward motion of heated and very humid tropical air. Arguing from a local point of view is fruitless and without merit. Reading about such things is a good thing. Arguing from personal experience without having absorbed the considered scientific message of climate leads nowhere.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

Are you serious or are you kidding?? Go sit in your car, turn it on, close the garage door, and tell me about NO carbon in the air.

ROTFL!!! Precisely. And yet... how many folks claim that power plants consuming entire trains of coal every day do no damage to the environment?

Until they live downwind of one!

[lesterbutch]

So far today the only thing I have seen that is dead nuts fact, is, that "we're all going to die"!

[Compactorguy]

For sale or trade 12v AC unit will trade for propane heating system 😜

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

Double ditto on what you just said. The biggest immediate problem we have on this earth is the limited resources we are consuming at an exponential rate. "We'll never run out of cod (insert buffalo, salmon, crabs, oil, water as needed)", and, the poisons we are dumping into the whole system. I'm not that worried about global warming anymore than I worry about dying. Both will happen sometime and I won't have much say about either. The next ice age will happen too, sometime. I believe the "governmental agencies" know as much about all this as do the "conspiracy" fanatics, i.e. not much. But there is only so much poop you can put in your backyard, and water you can take out of the water table, before it starts affecting you personally. Kinda hard to switch to fish instead of cow when the fish are gone. And you can't grow corn without clean water. Or raise cattle. Or flush the toilet.

I have a theory that, to the earth, mankind is simply a plague like any other plague. We will kill ourselves, fairly soon now, and the earth will go on like we had never existed. After all, a shortage of ... insert whatever mankind needs here... only matters to mankind, not to mother earth, or in most cases, even to other organisms.

Think about this. The industrial revolution started with wood, then coal, then oil furnishing enormous quantities of almost "free" energy. Once we use those up (which we are doing fairly rapidly), anything that tips mankind into decline will cause an era where there is no more "free" energy. The greeks (just as an example) could mine coal to burn, but they could not build a nuclear power plant or refine silicon, create a wafer plant and build solar chips and arrays. Those things required hundreds (thousands really) of years of progress on the backs of "free energy" to get to the technological point where mankind could make them.

Oil and coal took millions of years for the earth to create. When that is gone, or even hard to extract, there will be no "second chance" for mankind. WHEN we fall (and we will), we will go back to hunter gatherer and never advance past that again.

[Valmika]

Originally Posted by Compactorguy

For sale or trade 12v AC unit will trade for propane heating system 😜

Hey , I'm in Marina Del Rey. I take that deal. How many BTU ya got?

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

I have a theory that, to the earth, mankind is simply a plague like any other plague. We will kill ourselves, fairly soon now, and the earth will go on like we had never existed. After all, a shortage of ... insert whatever mankind needs here... only matters to mankind, not to mother earth, or in most cases, even to other organisms.

Think about this. The industrial revolution started with wood, then coal, then oil furnishing enormous quantities of almost "free" energy. Once we use those up (which we are doing fairly rapidly), anything that tips mankind into decline will cause an era where there is no more "free" energy. The greeks (just as an example) could mine coal to burn, but they could not build a nuclear power plant or refine silicon, create a wafer plant and build solar chips and arrays. Those things required hundreds (thousands really) of years of progress on the backs of "free energy" to get to the technological point where mankind could make them.

Oil and coal took millions of years for the earth to create. When that is gone, or even hard to extract, there will be no "second chance" for mankind. WHEN we fall (and we will), we will go back to hunter gatherer and never advance past that again.

I agree. My theory too. We all just want it to happen after we are dead.

Although many times I dream about what it would have been like to be one of the pioneers (or one of the native Americans for that matter) who took off from the American east coast in to a pretty pristine ecosystem. It could kill you in a nanosecond (bears, snakes, disease, etc) but you didn't have to worry about CO2 when you lit your campfire. Boating, for me, gets me as close to that space as anything I can think of.

[Foozinator]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

... Oil and coal took millions of years for the earth to create. When that is gone, or even hard to extract, there will be no "second chance" for mankind. WHEN we fall (and we will), we will go back to hunter gatherer and never advance past that again.

I disagree. There is still hugs amounts of oil that are reachable. We just can't get to it profitably (yet). If we don't make enough ground with non-fossil fuel sources quickly enough, the price of oil will start to rise as we run out of the easier sources. As the cost of gas increases, you'll see more and more money poured into hybrids and non-fossil fuel-burning technologies.

There are too many lives, livelihoods, and too much money with too many people involved to drop that ball and have the last drop of oil be a surprise.

We DO need to agree when we're done killing thousands per year burning coal and transition those power plants to cleaner technologies.

[Udacha]

Kinda curious, how many of the climate change believers ( not sure whether it's warming or cooling right now ) drink from bottled water??? I ask this because the industry uses 50 million barrels of oil to manufacture and deliver bottled water. To put it in perspective look at your plastic bottle and imagine it takes 25% of the volume in oil to produce it. And then when it is empty it won't just melt away unless recycled and the recycled part is pretty small and we have huge islands of plastic floating in our oceans