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Old 13-06-2016, 14:09   #1441
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

The Establishment that makes Billions off of the Fake issue...wow...where have we heard that before? All those suckers living in fear of Bacon...and popping high priced drugs for life....kinda like CO2...
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Old 13-06-2016, 19:36   #1442
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Did someone say Scientific Consensus?

High cholesterol 'does not cause heart disease' new research finds, so treating with statins a 'waste of time'

Do you know how many Billions of Dollars this "Consensus" has cost people in Dr Visits and Drugs.

The Follow the Money game Continues....
Better examples might be sea floor spreading and stomach ulcers. Two areas where new science overturned existing scientific inertia.
So Where's the new science regarding co2?
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Old 13-06-2016, 21:34   #1443
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Better examples might be sea floor spreading and stomach ulcers. Two areas where new science overturned existing scientific inertia.
So Where's the new science regarding co2?
Apparently its increase due to anthropogenic emissions is a widely accepted scientific "fact" and hardly new, but its casual relationship to dangerous or even significant MMGW remains theoretical. Based on what some AGW proponents rely on for sources, there seems to be quite a gap btwn where the science is as opposed to where those who report on the science claim it is.

But for those who are sincerely concerned and feel the need to adopt the "Precautionary Principle" for themselves or on the part of their elected officials, Reef has been generous enough to provide some lists of what they could do. Or they could follow the examples set by Third Day who lives on his boat completely off the grid, Newhaul who also lives on his boat and doesn't own a car, or Kenomac who has installed large arrays of solar panels on both his residence and boat.

Hey, wait just a minute! How come none of these posters are the ones constantly broadcasting their distress over this issue? And how come it's these same posters who get labeled "deniers" for not buying into the pro-AGW position when they seem to be the ones actually doing something helpful? If the AGW crowd is correct, then the posters who opt for lower carbon lifestyles or offer concrete proposals, but who deny or are skeptical about the pro-AGW science, are doing more to mitigate the problem than those who merely use the internet to preach. How can this be??

Whether you're on one side or the other, or somewhere in-btwn (like most), is there a pattern here???
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Old 13-06-2016, 21:36   #1444
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
the link quotes the following skeptics:
But Professor Colin Baigent, an epidemiologist at Oxford University, said the new study had “serious weaknesses and, as a consequence, has reached completely the wrong conclusion”.

Another sceptic, consultant cardiologist Dr Tim Chico, said he would be more convinced by randomised study where some patients have their cholesterol lowered using a drug, such as a stain, while others receive a placebo.
... and we love skeptics, right?


Also, the article is focussed on cholestorol and the elderly. Statins arguably have more clear-cut benefit for the middle-aged who have high LDL cholesterol, linked to early heart-attacks.
It's heartening to read your finally coming around to understanding the need for skeptics in all areas of science. Good on ya, L-E.
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Old 13-06-2016, 22:27   #1445
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Would love to go sailing. On June 1 I ruptured the quad tendon in my right leg playing squash. Heading for Maui on July 27 to bring back a Vic Maui boat. My surgeon assures me the leg should be OK by then.

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Very sorry to hear. Ive had a ruptured tendon on my left foot achiles tendon. Not that I want to be gloomy and all that but I think you should ask your doctor did he mean July 27, 2016 or 2017. Seriously, I would be asking him how long before you could do weight bearing unaided and how long you may have to wear an orthopedic boot contraption.

Again I'm sorry to hear.
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Old 13-06-2016, 22:43   #1446
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Did someone say Scientific Consensus?

High cholesterol 'does not cause heart disease' new research finds, so treating with statins a 'waste of time'

Do you know how many Billions of Dollars this "Consensus" has cost people in Dr Visits and Drugs.

The Follow the Money game Continues....
I've been a statin sceptic for a while. Apart from the money that it costs, which means people have to work for that money which means expending energy and then the energy that goes into manufacturing, shipping and then selling (dispensing) them all causing greater greenhouse emissions brings me to consider that using statins is contributing to AGW.

All that said. One of the warning side effects of long term statin use is that I may affect your muscles causing muscle weakness and damage. I was thinking about this little thought of side and affect and was thinking, you know what is the largest and most important muscle in the human body? Of course it is your heart.

Did any of these genius Doctors and researchers ever stop to consider that if it may cause damage to muscles in my legs and arms, what damage it may be doing to my heart muscle? Of course not.

It would be interesting if everyone on statins asked their Doctor about muscle damage as a consequence of statin use and then ask him/her what research if any has been done on the effect on the heart muscle. I would think you would be hard pressed to find even one Doctor that has even thought of this question let along spent more than a minute considering it.

But what do I know. After all, all I did is read about the adverse effects of statins in a medical research paper.
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Old 14-06-2016, 05:17   #1447
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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...But for those who are sincerely concerned and feel the need to adopt the "Precautionary Principle" for themselves or on the part of their elected officials, Reef has been generous enough to provide some lists of what they could do.
Not sure if "Reef" provided any lists, though he has been "generous" with his opinion.

List of Lists
Quote:
Or they could follow the examples set by Third Day who lives on his boat completely off the grid, Newhaul who also lives on his boat and doesn't own a car, or Kenomac who has installed large arrays of solar panels on both his residence and boat...
Personal virtue is good, even if done unwittingly. However, the problem is much larger than can be solved by a handful of people. It is important to publicly debate the causes and solutions to Climate Change because it is only by the concerted actions of the major governments, and the support of their populaces, that effective and timely actions will happen.
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Old 14-06-2016, 05:29   #1448
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Carbon dioxide biggest player in thawing permafrost | PHYS.org
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Carbon dioxide emissions from dry and oxygen-rich environments are likely to play a much greater role in controlling future rates of climate change caused by permafrost thaw than rates of methane release from oxygen-poor wetlands in the Arctic, according to research by a scientist at the University of Exeter.

Dr Iain Hartley, an associate professor in the department of Geography, and his co-authors found that both temperature and soil conditions affected the quantity of carbon released from thawing permafrost. A 10 °C increase in soil temperature released twice as much carbon into the atmosphere, but even more importantly, drier, oxygen-rich soil conditions resulted in more than three times more carbon release than wetter, low oxygen soil conditions.

The study published in Nature Climate Change and led by Northern Arizona University assistant research professor, Christina Schädel, analysed 25 Arctic soil incubation studies and discovered that the majority of that carbon emitted was in the form of carbon dioxide even in the low oxygen conditions, with only five per cent of the total anaerobic products being methane.

This means that even though methane packs 34 times the climate warming punch of carbon dioxide, methane fluxes were not high enough to compensate for the smaller total quantity of carbon released under low oxygen conditions in wet soils.[...]
Note that this study does not address the possibility of the melting of methane clathrates due to melting permafrost or warming oceans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methan...climate_change
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Old 14-06-2016, 06:29   #1449
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
Not sure if "Reef" provided any lists, though he has been "generous" with his opinion.

List of Lists

Blah
blah
Blah
My list is my list. No cut and paste involved. You should try that sometime ;-)

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Old 14-06-2016, 07:52   #1450
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Whether you're on one side or the other, or somewhere in-btwn (like most), is there a pattern here???
Folks With Big Boats Think Everything's A-Ok

There's your pattern. (ok, newhaul's the outlier)
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Old 14-06-2016, 07:55   #1451
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Apparently its increase due to anthropogenic emissions is a widely accepted scientific "fact" and hardly new, but its casual relationship to dangerous or even significant MMGW remains theoretical.
Is it? As a non scientist, as far as I can see the bedrock is very robust, co2 does what quantum mechanics predicts, exactly. It's much further down the line where any scientific discussion happens, leader of the pack being the climates' sensitivity to increases in greenhouse gasses, not the bottom line mechanisms which have been known about for a very long time and don't seem to be contentious at all.
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Old 14-06-2016, 09:24   #1452
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

OK jack you asked for it here is the abstract of the report on second-growth carbon sequestration potential
Carbon sequestration potential of second-growth forest regeneration in the Latin American tropics | Science Advances
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Old 14-06-2016, 09:59   #1453
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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OK jack you asked for it here is the abstract of the report on second-growth carbon sequestration potential
Carbon sequestration potential of second-growth forest regeneration in the Latin American tropics | Science Advances
I have read it. You cannot extrapolate that to the rest of the world.
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Old 14-06-2016, 10:03   #1454
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Very sorry to hear. Ive had a ruptured tendon on my left foot achiles tendon. Not that I want to be gloomy and all that but I think you should ask your doctor did he mean July 27, 2016 or 2017. Seriously, I would be asking him how long before you could do weight bearing unaided and how long you may have to wear an orthopedic boot contraption.

Again I'm sorry to hear.
Right now, I am fully weight bearing with the aid of a Zimmer splint.
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Old 14-06-2016, 10:18   #1455
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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I have read it. You cannot extrapolate that to the rest of the world.
To late jack it seems that they already have from other links posted about increased sequestration potential in forests in other areas in the world.
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