Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooling

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Drive a smaller car; live in a smaller house; telecommute; recycle; design stuff with the objective to last longer rather than cheapness to make; teach people that last year's model still works the same this year; discourage the throw away society; restrict consumerism; avoid products with excessive packaging; avoid drinking bottled water in regions with potable water supplies; respect the environment in general; try and breed less.

For starters.

Thank you again. (is this so hard, Exile?)

Some are personal voluntary changes, some could be legislated, some require restrictions or incentives placed on industry. Last question - is there anything you think the Australian government could do better to make these sorts of goals more achievable? (assuming that you think these are desirable)

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Thank you again. (is this so hard, Exile?)

It must not count because Reef isn't onboard with the CC dogma. He has too many questions & critiques. It also doesn't count if these things are done solely for personal economic reasons. I mean what's the value of any virtue signaling on that one? Can't wait to read how many of these items L-E has personally adopted, and how many other folks he has influenced to follow suit. Before you know it he will have saved the world.

Don't you really mean to say . . .

Some are personal voluntary changes for like-minded people who don't question the dogma, some could be legislated mandated for others who refuse to conform, some require restrictions additional regulation & taxation or incentives subsidies placed on industry. Last question - is there anything you think the Australian government could do better to make these sorts of goals more achievable? (assuming that you think these are desirable)

So have you petitioned your own govt. to enact these new mandates, taxes, regulations, and subsidies to accomplish Reef's list? Or would you prefer that they only be imposed elsewhere?

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Exile

Either way, it seems kind of silly not to analyze this phenonemom without referencing dissenting views from reputable members of the scientific community.

What happens in court of law when the dissenting views are put under scrutiny.

http://www.desmogblog.com/2016/06/07...shoot-straight


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[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

Lots of questions from a guy who repeatedly acts as if he already knows all the answers. For starters, I would approve of YOU paying higher taxes & utility bills so that YOUR govt. could transfer more of YOUR money to the economically unviable solar & wind industries.

Do I have to link, really? Canada and other countries are getting on with it. Wake up.

Such public monies should go into research & development if anywhere, not to be transferred from one private source to another, especially when such recipients often have political influence and donate campaign dollars. That's called personal enrichment funded by taxpayers as opposed to publicly-supported technological research.

What - "one private source to another" - have you fallen out of love with the Heartland Institute so quickly?

And... weren't you the guy suspicious of government scientific institutions and public funding of research? "Pro-AGW" I think you called it. Having a change of heart?

When such forecasts are in fact based on scientific facts, or based on scientific theories that have a sufficient degree of scientific certainty. And they are communicated to us by credible politicians based on conclusions reached by objective scientific institutions.

Skepticism noted, though I don't think there's a scientist or group of scientists that you wouldn't dismiss out of hand for some excuse or other.. excepting the sacred handfull of skeptics. Maybe stone tablets carried by the ghost of Albert Einstein...

That would be Economics 101, btw.

Mmmm no, I meant capitalism. Most of the proposed carbon pricing schemes leave it to the free market to find its own way to effect change. But anyway...

And that discipline tells us that, thus far, there is no viable alternative to fossil fuels for industry at any reasonable level of taxation. It requires massive govt subsidies, which means higher societal costs and resulting lower stds. of living. The technology has yet to arrive, and the justification has yet to be convincing.

Such Delfinesque nonsense. The idea is to get started - disincentivize growth of the fossil fuel industry, start paying the real cost of fossil-fuel use, incentivize the development of alternatives. We can adapt, remember?

The article on B.C. you linked to is the same one I think Jack already referred us to a couple of times now. Not sure it's about industry consumption, and not a lot of specifics mentioned so hard to judge. It reads more like a govt. marketing brochure than an objective economic analysis. Reading such materials with a bit more independent if not critical thinking can often help when confronted by such marketing/self-congratulatory material.

The Globe and Mail is a respected, center-right, usually conservative, very business-friendly newspaper. Feel free to impress us with your independent and critical thinking by confirming for yourself how the BC plan works, and whether or not it includes industry consumption.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

It must not count because Reef isn't onboard with the CC dogma. He has too many questions & critiques. It also doesn't count if these things are done solely for personal economic reasons. I mean what's the value of any virtue signaling on that one? Can't wait to read how many of these items L-E has personally adopted, and how many other folks he has influenced to follow suit. Before you know it he will have saved the world.

Somebody get Exile a tissue, please.

Then sit back and enjoy another of his famous word salads:

Don't you really mean to say . . .

Some are personal voluntary changes for like-minded people who don't question the dogma, some could be legislated mandated for others who refuse to conform, some require restrictions additional regulation & taxation or incentives subsidies placed on industry. Last question - is there anything you think the Australian government could do better to make these sorts of goals more achievable? (assuming that you think these are desirable)

Uncanny.

So have you petitioned your own govt. to enact these new mandates, taxes, regulations, and subsidies to accomplish Reef's list? Or would you prefer that they only be imposed elsewhere?

As I mentioned before, stuff is happening in Canada and elsewhere, with or without you. Wake up and read a paper.

[SailOar]

It's interesting to see where these lists agree and where they differ. Most of the websites have a more complete explanation of each point.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Climate solutions | Greenpeace

• Make sure emissions peak in 2015 and decrease as rapidly as possible towards zero after that
• Developed countries must make cuts of 40 percent on their 1990 carbon emissions by 2020
• Developing countries must slow the growth of emissions by 15-30 percent by 2020, with support from industrialised nations
• Protect tropical forests with a special funding mechanism - forests for climate
• Replace dirty fossil fuel energy with renewable energy and energy efficiency
• Reject false solutions like nuclear energy

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How You Can Stop Global Warming | Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC)

1. Speak up!
2. Power your home with renewable energy.
3. Weatherize, weatherize, weatherize.
4. Invest in energy-efficient appliances.
5. Actually eat the food you buy—and make less of it meat.
6. Buy better bulbs.
7. Drive a fuel-efficient vehicle.
8. Maintain your ride.
9. Rethink planes, trains, and automobiles.
10. Shrink your carbon profile.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Solutions to Global Warming | Union of Concern Scientists

• Boosting energy efficiency:
• Greening transportation:
• Revving up renewables:
• Phasing out fossil fuel electricity:
• Managing forests and agriculture:
• Exploring nuclear:
• Developing and deploying new low-carbon and zero-carbon technologies:
• Ensuring sustainable development:
• Adapting to changes already underway

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ten Personal Solutions to Global Warming | Union of Concern Scientists

• The car you drive: the most important personal climate decision.
• Make your house more air tight.
• Buy and USE a programmable thermostat.
• Eat less meat, especially beef.
• Use power strips in your home office and home entertainment center.
• Upgrade your refrigerator and air conditioner, especially if they are more than five years old.
• Get an electricity monitor.
• Change those light bulbs.
• Wash clothes in cold water.
• Buy less stuff.
• Spread the word.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Climate Change Solutions | OurClimate.net

Just for fun, we tried to imagine what the twelve step program for getting off fossil fuels would look like. Here it is:

The twelve step climate change program

1. We admitted we were powerless over fossil fuels—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Gaia as we understood her.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to Gaia, to ourselves, and to other human beings the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to become a conscious part of Gaia, and make sacrifices for the greater whole.
7. Humbly asked her to remove our destructive behaviours.
8. Made a list of all species we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct changes in our lives, such as investing in energy conservation, using renewable energy, buying local organic food, and driving, flying and consuming less.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through time spent quietly in nature to improve our conscious contact with Gaia as we understood her, seeking for understanding of our place in nature.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to fossil fuel addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs, including voting.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

7 Solutions to Climate Change Happening Now | Scientific American

1. Clean Power Plants
2. Local Action
3. Control of Methane Leaks
4. Tougher Emissions and Efficiency Standards
5. Greener Farming
6. Private Sector Action
7. New Kinds of Geopolitical Consensus

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What You Can Do | EPA

At Home

1. Change five lights
2. Look for ENERGY STAR
3. Heat and cool smartly
4. Seal and insulate your home
5. Reduce, reuse, recycle
6. Use water efficiently
7. Be green in your yard
8. Purchase green power
9. Calculate your household's carbon footprint
10. Spread the word

At the Office

1. Manage your office equipment energy use better
2. Look for ENERGY STAR-qualified products for the office
3. Ask your office building manager if your building has earned the ENERGY STAR
4. Use less energy for your commute
5. Reduce, reuse, recycle
6. Use Green Power
7. Encourage your organization to develop a greenhouse gas inventory

On the Road

1. Buy smart: Purchase a fuel-efficient, low-greenhouse gas vehicle
2. Drive smart
3. Remember maintenance...
4. ... and don’t forget your tires!
5. Give your car a break
6. Use renewable fuels

At School

Students

1. Middle school students: Explore climate science and solutions
2. High school students:

Track your school's climate impact
Spread the word.

3. College students: Get involved at your college or university

Educators

1. Teach students about climate change and ecosystems
2. Engage middle school students in estimating emissions
3. Learn from other educators

Administrators

1. Save money and the environment
2. Estimate your emissions and take the challenge
3. Reduce, reuse, recycle

[Exile]

After reading this & promptly dropping the full coffee pot on the floor, I wanted to thank SailOar for providing some illumination into the minds of a few of our more vocal posters who repeatedly have trouble keeping their feet on the ground. These 12 Commandments . . . errrr . . . I mean 12 "Steps" were the most revealing, especially #12. Hard to imagine any more solid ratification for Third Day's repeated insistence that, for all too many, this is more about "finding" a new religion for themselves and co-opting it into the politics than it is about selfless concern for the planet. And of course it wouldn't be fun w/o a few of my own edits.

The twelve step climate change program:

1. We admitted we were powerless over fossil fuels—that our lives had become unmanageable [and so we had to put our "faith" in a higher power].

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. [non-believers are not only misguided, uninformed, uneducated, i.e. worship the wrong "God," but they are also insane]

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Gaia [Earth personified as a deity in Greek mythology]as we understood her.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. [prayer]

5. Admitted to Gaia, to ourselves, and to other human beings the exact nature of our wrongs. [confession]

6. Were entirely ready to become a conscious part of Gaia, and make sacrifices for the greater whole. [handing over individual identity to the state, i.e. the new church]

7. Humbly asked her to remove our destructive behaviours. [we're all sinners]

8. Made a list of all species we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. [pagan worship; redemption]

9. Made direct changes in our lives, such as investing in energy conservation, using renewable energy, buying local organic food, and driving, flying and consuming less. [repentance/redemption/confirmity of worship for the sake of group acceptance]

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. [can never stop atoning for our everlasting sins]

11. Sought through time spent quietly in nature to improve our conscious contact with Gaia as we understood her, seeking for understanding of our place in nature. [more prayer]

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message [L-E]to fossil fuel addicts [who remain oppressed for not yet having seen the light], and to practice these principles in all our affairs [not L-E but his proslytizing makes up for it], including voting. [and there it is folks . . . you must vote your religious convictions to reach salvation

These threads have been very insightful.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

These threads have been very insightful.

Curious that you'd only comment on what was sort of a self-mocking exercise on the part of Climate Change Solutions, but you do have unique talents for divining intent.

It takes no special divining to see the denier behind your "skeptic" act. It's pretty clear that you flatly deny the need or utility to be at all proactive about any of current environmental or social issues, without even touching AGW. It's not an uncommon opinion and you are of course free to hold it.

[not L-E but his proslytizing makes up for it]

You don't know what I have done or do, and I like it that way. Anyway, it's pretty clear that no acreage of solar panels or forest of wind generators or miles of petitions would ever redeem me or my arguments in your eyes. Why keep pretending it would?

[transmitterdan]

I read the other day that MM CO2 emissions have already peaked. The world economic growth rate will dictate whether that holds or not. So it seems the simplest lever to control CO2 emissions is economic growth. Thus a few central banks can control CO2 via money supply. Why then do we need all this complex shifting of wealth?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I read the other day that MM CO2 emissions have already peaked. The world economic growth rate will dictate whether that holds or not. So it seems the simplest lever to control CO2 emissions is economic growth. Thus a few central banks can control CO2 via money supply. Why then do we need all this complex shifting of wealth?

You are in real trouble now you just uncovered the truth.
The redistribution of wealth has nothing to do with climate change mmgw is just the front that they are using to hide the linning of specific pockets at the expense of others. ( the citizens of countries that actually earned the wealth.)

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by newhaul

The redistribution of wealth has nothing to do with climate change

well, you have that much right, at least.

[SV THIRD DAY]

CO2 Privilege brought on by a hetero-Patriarchy!

I need a safe space.....oh...I already do, it's called a boat.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I read the other day that MM CO2 emissions have already peaked. The world economic growth rate will dictate whether that holds or not. So it seems the simplest lever to control CO2 emissions is economic growth. Thus a few central banks can control CO2 via money supply. Why then do we need all this complex shifting of wealth?

I am skeptical. Show me.

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[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I am skeptical. Show me.

Strange...
When we ask/say that we are called Deniers.
Interesting...

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

I read the other day that MM CO2 emissions have already peaked. The world economic growth rate will dictate whether that holds or not. So it seems the simplest lever to control CO2 emissions is economic growth. Thus a few central banks can control CO2 via money supply. Why then do we need all this complex shifting of wealth?

ESRL Global Monitoring Division - Global Greenhouse Gas Reference Network