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Old 01-12-2015, 08:48   #121
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Warmers Dine on Haute Cuisine
Totally with you on the government wasting money thing. That was ridiculous.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:15   #122
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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I for 3 years now have been more concerned with global cooling. Both the antarctic and arctic Ice are growing. Antarctic ice is growing both on land and sea. Arctic ice is still not recovered, but it's well on it's way to full recovery. Northwest passage sailing, not happening any time soon.
What I've seen is that the Antarctic land snow/ice is increasing, enough to compensate for the sea ice retreating. I've also seen reports that glaciers in many places (South America, Canada, Greenland, etc) have been dramatically retreating.

I also saw a short show that was talking about how Russia, US, and a few other heavy hitters were posturing for passage rights around the Arctic, looking for oil that was under ice before now. Canada was concerned because they don't have much to enforce their own borders. If this was more propaganda, it seemed really indirect.

Whether you agree how the climate is changing or why, can we at least agree on other things?
  1. The growing solar panel industry is a good thing
  2. Pollution (plastic in the gyres, air quality, etc) is bad
  3. Decreasing food/water/electricity waste (within reason) is good
  4. A choice for car types (gas/diesel/hybrid/electric) is good

On the one hand, I agree that increasing government regulations is not the best way to go. On the other hand, I think there are cases where they should have done more (ex: doing more about the big banks after the recession). Maybe there's a balance to be found in there, somewhere.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:18   #123
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Personally I am not going to because I don't think that I will live more than another 30 years or so. But I would say yes, if you think that you will live another 200-300 years it might be prudent to start getting ready now.
Not a care for children and their offspring, then?
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:21   #124
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Not a care for children and their offspring, then?
that comment is pure troll and totally irrelevant.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:28   #125
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Not a care for children and their offspring, then?
Me personally no I'm not my son was killed in 02 and my dad s 91 so I am the last of my bloodline I put solar on the boat to reduce my diesel usage not for the environment but for my pocketbook
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:34   #126
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Here is an interesting "fact" When I was in High School way back in the 70s we were being taught that we were going into an Ice Age because of burning a hole in the ozone. To get a proper analysis you need to go back 1000s of years and 10,000s and 100,000s of years. In my case in just a few decades the planet went from "going" into an Ice Age to "going" into a meltdown. I take a grain of salt with ANY climate predictions. Either they were lying to me then or lying to me now or maybe both
The consensus used to be that the world is flat. As more and more evidence came in that showed that wasn't true, most people agreed the world is not flat. That doesn't mean that the people way back when were lying. They didn't know better.

Most scientists didn't think the dinosaurs were killed by an asteroid, until more and more evidence suggested that they were. They weren't lying. They were going with what they knew at the time.

I remember talk about a potentially looming ice age. For one thing, it looked like one was due. As they looked into it and found more information, they stopped talking about that.

Now, they're looking at the effects of deforestation, air pollution, etc and saying there is evidence these are causing problems.

Does that mean I'm going to sell my paid-for gas-powered car and buy an expensive electric powered one? No, but I am telecommuting, so I'm driving less.

Should I go totally off-grid with my current house? I don't plan on making drastic changes there, either, but I am planning on getting a floating house with solar panels in the next year or so...

Should we just turn all the coal-powered plants off and fire all the workers? Of course not. But, we should (and it looks like we are) start replacing those power plants with newer ones that are better in more ways than just being cleaner.

The pot odds are better with the cautious approach, and we don't have to turn everything upside down to do that.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:36   #127
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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that comment is pure troll and totally irrelevant.
Some would argue that this is very relevant, even a primary motivation.

EDIT: I do apologize to newhaul for what was clearly insensitive to him, but I still disagree that future generations have nothing to do with this discussion.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:38   #128
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Me personally no I'm not my son was killed in 02 and my dad s 91 so I am the last of my bloodline I put solar on the boat to reduce my diesel usage not for the environment but for my pocketbook
I'm sorry for your losses. I had no idea.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:47   #129
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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I am not saying it isn't appropriate to give it a shot..but the argument is alot like nuclear disarmament...we can all agree it is a smart and intelligent idea..but it's a competitive world...and in fact, there are no "first takers"...seems everyone is waiting for the other guy to do it. And that makes sense in game theory, if you understand the cost to competition and cost outright...

How will I know alternative power to oil fuel is legitimate as a cost argument...

when "WE ALL" can agree and take the action at the same time...as mentioned before...you conditional questions above require a leap of faith, that frankly I don't see anyone taking up.
I disagree that this is like nuclear disarmament. From what I've read, Germany is already more of a "first taker" than the US about solar. New technologies and transitions rarely happen all at once. There are usually early adopters and hold-outs.

I do see your ROI argument, and I can't say if solar (for example) is on cost-parity with oil, yet, or not. There are other advantages to a distributed power generation network beyond financial ROI. Keeping your fridge running when the rest of the block is "dark", for example.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:52   #130
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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I'm sorry for your losses. I had no idea.
Not an issue and just to inform very few do know its not something I tell people for the most part
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:33   #131
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

“Massively Altered” …German Professor Examines NASA GISS Temperature Datasets

Opps....what happens when the Warming data is faked....

There is just too much money in the MMGW Game to let it go...
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:55   #132
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

A whole lotta people making an easy living trying to scare us into thinking this is something to worry about. I worry more about those who feel mankind must take some kind of control over the environment. I am pretty sure a committee of humans has no chance of positively running a planet's atmosphere.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:04   #133
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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“Massively Altered” …German Professor Examines NASA GISS Temperature Datasets

Opps....what happens when the Warming data is faked....

There is just too much money in the MMGW Game to let it go...
There's money on both sides, and yes, crockery on both sides. Please see my cartoon image on the first page.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:05   #134
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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A whole lotta people making an easy living trying to scare us into thinking this is something to worry about. I worry more about those who feel mankind must take some kind of control over the environment. I am pretty sure a committee of humans has no chance of positively running a planet's atmosphere.
And you're willing to bet your life and a number of future generations' well being on that?

Not good pot odds, there.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:16   #135
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

My cat just farted! Should I shoot it?
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