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Old 30-11-2015, 16:27   #76
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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The global climate change industry is worth an annual $1.5 trillion, according to Climate Change Business Journal. That’s the equivalent of $4 billion a day spent on vital stuff like carbon trading, biofuels, and wind turbines

I'm pretty sure I don't like that very much
I'm not sure I like carbon trading or biofuels, either.

Wind turbine growth has slowed because of the expense and additional problems (eye sore, bird threat).

I suspect that most of that growth has been in the solar power industry, which has been making huge strides. There are more advantages (and complications, to be sure) to a distributed power generation system than just being green.
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:28   #77
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Meme after meme after meme

Just waiting now for a link to the "anti-tobacco deniers"
What does tobacco have to do with it?

Call them memes if you want. I haven't seen any of your sources, just opinions.
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:28   #78
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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What about feedback mechanisms, like the Arctic permafrost (Alaska, etc), and changes in albedo for the retreating Antarctic glaciers?

Small changes can end up causing a big difference.

Look at it this way:

If you're right, and we act like I'm right, then we've wasted some money and effort trying to make the world a better place. If you're right, and we do nothing, then no harm done. It's just business as usual.

If I'm right, and we act like I'm right, then we could say we did what we could, and hopefully see results in both species count and billions spent in infrastructure. If I'm right and we do nothing, then the sixth extinction event really is just getting started.
If this were a planet where net climate feedbacks were positive, we wouldn't be here. It would be either a frozen ball of ice or a burnt out lump of rock.


Ah, the old "precautionary principle" meme this time. You really are full of them aren't you.
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:33   #79
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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What does tobacco have to do with it?

Call them memes if you want. I haven't seen any of your sources, just opinions.
The usual meme is "it's the same people who were part of the tobacco lobby who are now climate deniers"

What exactly do you want sources for. Be specific and I will provide some - and they won't be newspaper/magazine articles or sites like Skeptical Science :0
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:35   #80
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Yes to the OP's Question.

I set up a SV THIRD DAY Global Warming Awareness Fund and for $500 I will issue you a Certificate of Indulgence that will allow you go cruise the Arctic guilt free. I will plant two trees for you and will walk to local taco shop rather than drive once per Indulgence.

www.GuiltFreeCruising.com
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:36   #81
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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If this were a planet where net climate feedbacks were positive, we wouldn't be here. It would be either a frozen ball of ice or a burnt out lump of rock.
It's not that simple. There are thousands of feedback elements that change at different rates. A handfull of them going net positive can make things worse for us within our lifespan (or a couple generations), and still swing back to "normal" within geological timespans.

And yes, the earth has been a frozen ball in the past (first extinction event sometimes called "snowball Earth") as well as really, really hot (Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum and Neoproterozoic).

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Ah, the old "precautionary principle" meme this time. You really are full of them aren't you.
You'd rather not be careful? Really? Unless you have a backup planet tucked away somewhere, I think we should be careful with the only planet we have.
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:37   #82
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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It's not billions it's trillions, billions everyday!!!

I don't really care how you want to spin it, I strongly disagree
Sources?
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:39   #83
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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And your point is?

The claim was that the last 5 years were "the hottest evah". I provided graphs of the last 20 years showing that that claim was false and that in the last 20 years there were several years hotter than the last five.

Your 30 year plot shows exactly the same thing, and also disproves the contention. It just has an additional 10 irrelevant years tacked on at the start.
If you crop the graph to start with a local maximum (1986-ish, IIRC), then it looks like a cooling trend. Backing out, you see a larger, warming trend.

I agree that that particular plot does not support the last 5 years being the hottest.
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:41   #84
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Stu...
You do realize that you are trying to talk a Christian into becoming a Muslim don't you...or vice versa. You should just give up and relax...they voted in Paris to make the CO2 reductions Voluntary...ha ha ha....game over...now onto real issues.
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:43   #85
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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The usual meme is "it's the same people who were part of the tobacco lobby who are now climate deniers"
You brought that up, not me. I mentioned that big oil has a significant financial stake. Are you arguing that they don't? Are you arguing that big oil hasn't contributed millions to PR and election campaigns?

You can't argue that a scientist who's making tens of thousands can't be objective because of where his money comes from and ignore the congressmen arguing against the scientist with their tens of millions in super pacs.
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:47   #86
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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There is absolutely no reasonable doubt about (1) the warming of Earth's atmosphere due to human release of CO2 since the 1880s and (2) the presence of massive glacial cycles of the past million or so years..the physical evidence for both there for anyone to see. The time scales are completely different and some scientists are talking about (1) and others (2). CO2 heating is a huge problem on the scale of 50 to 100 years. A cooler Earth due to the next glacial period is part of a 100,000 year cycle.

A warmer Earth due to CO2 release plays out in different ways in different places. Some places, like the Arctic, now see very rapidly increasing temperatures. In others, like the US NE, we see many cold spells caused by cold air being ejected southward from the Arctic and lots of warm spells in the southwestern US and North Pacific caused by massive poleward motion of heated and very humid tropical air. Arguing from a local point of view is fruitless and without merit. Reading about such things is a good thing. Arguing from personal experience without having absorbed the considered scientific message of climate leads nowhere.
Wow, you and a couple other posters are a breath of fresh air ! (pun intended). It is hard to believe that people (cruisers) who have a life-style so closely tied to nature would have such a callous attitude toward the environment. The inland river system and Great Lakes have heavy metal warnings for fish consumption, New York city uses the Atlantic for a trash dumping site and the EPA is responsible for marked improvements in air quality. Do I sound like a ''tree-hugger''? Hell yeah !! Trees clean the air ! As to global warming, guess these guys either don't think thermometers really work or it is just a big government conspiracy. Yeah yeah, that's it. Noaa and NASA are in on it too. Well, I always say, the water doesn't care if you believe in global warming, it just a keeps on coming. They will believe when their asses get wet.
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:52   #87
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Stu...
You do realize that you are trying to talk a Christian into becoming a Muslim don't you...or vice versa. You should just give up and relax...they voted in Paris to make the CO2 reductions Voluntary...ha ha ha....game over...now onto real issues.
I got another meme for you. "Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it."
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Old 30-11-2015, 16:59   #88
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Foozinator,

I'm probably wasting my time here, but just for laughs - you might like to try downloading and reading the PDF book here:

http://climatechangereconsidered.org/
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Old 30-11-2015, 17:09   #89
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

One thing that is true: there will be people, despite any evidence to the contrary, that will continue to believe in whatever they want to believe in. I did not indicate in this statement pro or con or anything regarding the global climate debate.

Should we start a thread on evolution? I understand that there is still debate about the credibility of that "theory".
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Old 30-11-2015, 17:33   #90
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Should we start a thread on evolution? I understand that there is still debate about the credibility of that "theory".

Albert Einstein – “There Is Neither Evolution Nor Destiny; Only Being.”
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