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Old 14-12-2015, 12:47   #391
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Just a silly semantic note, is the use of "expiration" when referring to people.
It sounds Like your inferring they are dying or dead. You might want to use
"exhalation" instead. Physiologically inspiration and expiration are correct, but
situationally, not so much😇😀
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Old 14-12-2015, 13:21   #392
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Once you get the concept that the belief in MMGW is a Religion rather than Science you will see how challenging it brings out the radical jihadist in the true believers: Go on personal attacks, Fire professors, sack meteorologist, it is all acceptable in the name of Gia. They even use religious terms such as "Denier" to label the heretics that don't believe. Back when I was in the air pollution control field, I saw these people and were their peers and right away it became obvious to me that it was their belief system driving them, not science, so I got out before I was crucified upside down for the crime of blasphemy.
Honestly, I think most people tell you to stop talking not for your message, but for the way you present it. At least Stu provides counter-points and supports his arguments without resorting to much name calling. The immature insults and hand waving I've seen you post here are hardly worth the read.
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Old 14-12-2015, 16:42   #393
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by lesterbutch View Post
Just a silly semantic note, is the use of "expiration" when referring to people.
It sounds Like your inferring they are dying or dead. You might want to use
"exhalation" instead. Physiologically inspiration and expiration are correct, but
situationally, not so much😇😀
OK. Shall do.
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Old 15-12-2015, 20:56   #394
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Just in

Quote:
The warming Arctic has set another record.

The average air temperature over Arctic land reached 2.3 degrees F (1.3 degrees C) above average for the year ending in September. That’s the highest since observations began in 1900.

The new mark was noted in the annual Arctic Report Card, released Tuesday by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The Arctic centers on the North Pole and reaches into North America and Eurasia.

“Warming is happening more than twice as fast in the Arctic than anywhere else in the world. We know this is due to climate change,” NOAA chief scientist Rick Spinrad told reporters in San Francisco at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union.

Another record emerged for sea ice, which appears when Arctic Ocean water freezes. When it reached its peak coverage in February, it was the lowest maximum extent since records began in 1979. The minimum ice coverage, reached in September, was the fourth-lowest on record.
Global warming blamed as Arctic posts record heat over land, retreat of ice | The Japan Times
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Old 15-12-2015, 21:09   #395
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

With all these unimpeachable sources you have quoted, Jackdale, we are totally screwed! Time to bend over and kiss this old ass goodbye! Strange that I have lived and spent all this time on the water and seen season after season swing back and forth until Obama and his ideologues jumped on the 'climate change' bandwagon and got folks all upset!
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Old 15-12-2015, 23:11   #396
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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With all these unimpeachable sources you have quoted, Jackdale, we are totally screwed! Time to bend over and kiss this old ass goodbye! Strange that I have lived and spent all this time on the water and seen season after season swing back and forth until Obama and his ideologues jumped on the 'climate change' bandwagon and got folks all upset!
Seems odd that scientists and the data were increasingly saying the same thing when 'Fair and Balanced, Teach the Controversy' Bush II was in power (also Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy and Eisenhower)...

Strange that I've lived at roughly 30 degrees N for the last 42 years, and the temperature rarely gets above 95 in the summer or below 25 F in the winter (it's called climate). Therefore I can be certain that the average global temperature has remained the same for the last 100 years.

Still waiting to hear jackdales sources impeached...by someone or something with a track record for being correct (i.e. not the 'because I said so' crowd).
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Old 16-12-2015, 04:12   #397
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
With all these unimpeachable sources you have quoted, Jackdale, we are totally screwed! Time to bend over and kiss this old ass goodbye! Strange that I have lived and spent all this time on the water and seen season after season swing back and forth until Obama and his ideologues jumped on the 'climate change' bandwagon and got folks all upset!
We're screwed because so many decent sensible people like yourself (presumably) have successfully been persuaded that an entire branch of science doesn't know what they're doing, that it's all some big conspiracy even ("Obama and his ideologues"...really? Good name for a band) ...and because so many sputtering economies still rely upon underpriced fossil fuels as a crutch, while others overproduce because they are so reliant on exporting it . We're addicted to what is screwing up the climate.
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Old 16-12-2015, 22:03   #398
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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@jimbunyard - the core of trolling is intent; is the person actually intending to annoy or bait those of an 'opposing' viewpoint, to make them waste time and get further involved in rebuttal/defense, which amuses the troller.

In person, we have many cues besides just the words to determine a person's sincerity and intent. On a forum, the only knowledge we have of a person is the sum total of their written posts.

Contrary to the oft-repeated portrayals of warmistas/cultists/eco-conspirators hurled around here as blinkered conformists who can't brook any disagreement, I do welcome and read genuine counterpoint. Unfortunately, in our annual CF AGW bunfight, there's precious little of it here that's new or valid. Same old disproved crap. And more than a little trolling.

Anyway... GW's initial post might make assumptions that I disagree with, but I was wrong to treat it as a deliberate troll, and I certainly don't have past knowledge of GWs posts to suspect it as one. I was wrong, and have apologized to GW, who has been very gracious about it.
Thank you again Lake Effect. By the way it is worth noting I didn't deny climate change. I posed the question concerning global cooling. There are more than a few scientists who accept global weather change who are raising a cooling cycle as a possibility. I have an open mind and started this post from that perspective. It was not to goad anyone or attack anyone.

I don't understand being accused of being schizophrenic because I have a home a second home in Argentina and I plan on cruising the far south Antarctic waters as well as Caribbean and the Med. It is a legitimate concern for me about any sizeable cooling and its impact that could see a significant increase in large ice cubes (joke) in one of the waters I am planning on sailing in. It was a serious question.

One view that I am forming is that heating or cooling we are talking about one or two degrees. Hardly the kind of thing I need to concern myself about over the next ten years or so. But I could be wrong. And if I'm wrong and it cools much quicker that s causes a dramatic weather shift and increase in solid ice obstacles I could or should look at abandoning sailing in the far south which has life planning decisions for me. If its warming up even down south than I have nothing to worry about.

Sorry for being so selfish in trying to analyze what's really going on and what effect it may have on my future plans. And sorry I don't fit in the normal for and against dogma box.
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Old 16-12-2015, 22:16   #399
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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There are more than a few scientists who accept global weather change who are raising a cooling cycle as a possibility.
Who are these scientists?
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Old 16-12-2015, 22:36   #400
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Well, if one agrees with this definition,


In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.


then it appears that yes, Lake-Effect, your original evaluation was reasonably accurate. Doesn't hurt to apologize, unless apologies aren't needed....

Of course, none of that makes threads like this useless, or any less perversely amusing. They're oftentimes enlightening, illustrating classic examples of odd psychological behavior like confirmation bias, the Dunning Kruger effect, illusory correlation, logical errors, and yes, even fascist attitudes (It's not happening because I said so), and sometimes even invoke self-examination, which in these 'Me' dominated times seems a good thing....


It's rather interesting that GoingWalkabout says this in their first post:

So now we are looking at Global Cooling I am so glad to be preparing for a life aboard a sailboat. I will be able to move to wherever the climate is most favorable and not stuck in some freezing part of the world. :big grin:

And this in their last:

So are we going to have more or less ice down South. I have a second home in Argentina and am seriously interested in ice accumulation or dissipation in the southern region. And I will be looking at installing insulation either way on my cat. And yes I'm going to be sailing a cat in the far southern waters full of ice blocks.

Should I add 'schizophrenia' to the list...or is this just normal inattentive writing?
Yes I tend to agree with your assessment, skillfully devised to create amusement while pissing off other's.
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Old 16-12-2015, 22:52   #401
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Jack give this a read and report a synopsis of what they are saying my tablet don't do so good these days ( getting new for xmas
Scientists and Studies predict ‘imminent global COOLING’ ahead – Drop in global temps ‘almost a slam dunk’ | Climate Depot
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Old 16-12-2015, 23:07   #402
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Jack give this a read and report a synopsis of what they are saying my tablet don't do so good these days ( getting new for xmas
Scientists and Studies predict ‘imminent global COOLING’ ahead – Drop in global temps ‘almost a slam dunk’ | Climate Depot
Doesn't seem to match what's actually happening.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...a-huge-margin/

"Last month was the warmest*November on record by an incredible margin,*according to NASA measurements. The global average temperature for the month was 1.05 degrees Celsius, or about 1.9 degrees Fahrenheit, warmer than the 1951 to 1980 average. It’s also the second month in a row that Earth’s temperature exceeded 1 degree Celsius above average.

It was*just in October*that*our planet first exceeded the 1-degree benchmark*in NASA’s records, dating to 1880. Prior to that, the*largest anomaly was 0.97 degrees Celsius in*January 2007."
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Old 16-12-2015, 23:18   #403
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Thank you all for explaining what a troll is... All this time I thought a troll was a funny looking guy who lived under a bridge! Now I know it is some one who baits others with whom he disagrees and takes the piss out of them. Didn't know that! Phil
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Old 17-12-2015, 00:21   #404
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Yes I tend to agree with your assessment, skillfully devised to create amusement while pissing off other's.
Well believe it or not, it's not meant to piss anyone off. This passive/ aggressive pseudo-skepticism has gotten completely out of hand and needs to be called out. If it turns out to be amusing to some so be it, and I won't deny that I will try and make it more so if someone says something incongruous or self-contradictory or just plain silly, and if I do so I would expect the same.

The science on the human contribution to climate change is quite clear, certainly there are unknowns and uncertainties, and always will be; that is the nature of all science. But the basic theory was worked out over 50 years ago, based on 75 years of preliminary work. Everything since then is working toward refining the theory, and anyone that wants to can take the time and see for themselves that this work is proceeding well by the results being achieved.

Of course, that involves actual work by digging into the science, and is not served by reading a second or third or fourth hand account of someone who attended a conference somewhere and heard someone say something they're primed to hear (and believe).

It would be different if we were talking about the difference in a cat or a monohull, or spade versus a Danforth, but we're not. This is where I and everyone I know lives, and it's the only place we're ever liable to live, and we're talking about potentially screwing it up even more big time than we have already, so yes I take it seriously. Alarmist? I'd call it truly conservative. I tend to err on the side of caution, and don't like too much change. Same as always is a good day to me...
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Old 17-12-2015, 03:44   #405
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Don't you pathetic deniers understand that climate change is here now and is killing hundreds of thousands of people just like you and me every year and it's only getting worse?

https://newrepublic.com/article/1210...wide-terrorism

This isn't denialist claptrap so it must be true.

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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