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Old 09-12-2015, 23:21   #271
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Hold that thought.

Human expiration accounts for ~5 percent of the total human co2 emissions. Figure roughly 1 pound of co2 per person per day. Could be as high as 0.9kg per day, but I'll take the conservative estimate.

It's not much per breath, but add 7200 breaths per day x 7 billion happy people x 365 days and you get 1.27 billion tons (short tons) of co2 per year just from human breath. That leaves me breathless.

Back in 1950 when there were only 2.5 billion folks, it was only 456 million tons per year. That's a 548% increase just since 1950.

Put another way 7 billion people emit as much co2 as 500 million cars. Maybe we need a catalytic converter for people... Or train everyone to breath only half as much.

On the plus side, plankton and well all our veggy friends, those of the plant persuasion, love the higher co2 concentrations. Plants grow a tad faster with the higher co2 levels.

So getting the world population down to 1980 levels would do lots to reduce co2 emissions.
But less population would make my carrots grow slower.
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Old 09-12-2015, 23:23   #272
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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On the plus side, plankton and well all our veggy friends, those of the plant persuasion, love the higher co2 concentrations.
All plankton? Maybe not a simple as that, ocean acidification is a massive problem which doesn't get mentioned much.

http://news.mit.edu/2015/ocean-acidi...oplankton-0720
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Old 10-12-2015, 00:17   #273
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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All plankton? Maybe not a simple as that, ocean acidification is a massive problem which doesn't get mentioned much.

http://news.mit.edu/2015/ocean-acidi...oplankton-0720
Like everything else related to this topic there are non-alarmist opinions. (and, yes, I know Jo Nova is a commie cigar chomping oil burning socialist uneducated spawn of a devil or whatever - but apparently it's only these types that can devote un-grant sponsored research efforts to counter views in this arena.)

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/11/the...acidification/

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Old 10-12-2015, 00:26   #274
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

There are opinions and there is science. Web forum threads contain little of the latter...
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:01   #275
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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There are opinions and there is science. Web forum threads contain little of the latter...
I'm home recovering from surgery at the moment. At lunchtime today I watched a documentary called "70 degrees South" on Netflix. I didn't realise it was a climate change documentary until I started watching it. I almost had to turn it off, because I was laughing so hard I was in danger of bursting my staples.

In quick review, this team of scientists were there to investigate the affects of climate change on plankton or something like that. This apparantly involves a lot of trampling through penguin colonies. They chased and captured the now distressed penguins, young and old, electronically tagging adults and weighing juveniles after placing them in bags. It also involved inciting Skewer birds to attack their cameras for cool shots, and when bored with that they shot harpoons at whales to retrieve chunks of their flesh which caused one brainiac aboard to declare that they probably "feel a little sting" when the harpoons strike and rip off the tissue sample. Finally, they capture a whole bunch of krill and throw them alive into liquid nitrogen in order to preserve their stomach contents.

The documentary was par for the course littered with the usual doom and gloom of climate change but with surprisingly few hard facts quoted. The coup de grace was the more than once association of Antarctic climate change with Hurricane Sandy (no prizes here for guessing the year of production and nationality of the research team).

Why did I laugh? They did all the above whilst racing around in high powered RIBS and boasting of the 5000 gallons of diesel they were burning per day - yes, per day - onboard the (very slick looking and filled with $$$ techno-gadgetry) research vessel. These precious scientists had the heating up so much they were all forced to run around in T-shirts below deck.

Oh yeah, they also complained about too much ice at the southernmost bay they went to and the documentary finished without a single finding on their research being mentioned.

In other words, sponsored Climate Change research 21st Century style.
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:38   #276
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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and the documentary finished without a single finding on their research being mentioned.
Exactly. You were forming an opinion while watching TV. That's not science.
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Old 10-12-2015, 01:43   #277
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Exactly. You were forming an opinion while watching TV. That's not science.
I did form an opinion. A bunch of gas guzzling research grant fuelled climate scientists enjoyed a jolly good time in the Antarctic whilst adding sfa to the pool of knowledge.

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Old 10-12-2015, 04:31   #278
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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... I question models that use too many assumptions or proxies ...
So, you question the value of thermometers because they measure temperature (indirectly) by “proxy”?

Most thermometers in the past used the expansion and contraction of a liquid, such as mercury or alcohol, in a tube. The temperature reading is not a reading of temperature at all. It is a measure of volume. The volume at any given moment is an indirect effect of the actual temperature in the same way that isotopic measurements are an indirect effect of actual temperature.

Another kind of measuring device uses the differential expansion and contraction of different kinds of metals. A bi-metallic strip bends to different degrees depending on temperature, and that can be an indirect measurement of the actual temperature of the air. Such a thermometer measured bent-ness of metal, not temperature.

There is another kind of temperature indicator that is usually considered to be direct but is, again, not a direct measurement of temperature. It uses physics. Various materials conduct electricity. In most cases, the actual amount of conductivity depends on other factors like temperature. So, some materials can be used to estimate temperature by running electricity through them at a constant rate, then seeing how much gets through. The difference from time to time will be mainly due to temperature changes.

You can’t reject climate science, or any other science you somehow find inconvenient or contrary to your beliefs, and math too boot, and then blithely accept the same methods of understanding the world when it comes to the thermometers.
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Old 10-12-2015, 05:22   #279
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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(whinging about a TV show)
The film Antarctic Edge: 70° South is about the NSF-funded Long Term Ecological Research Network
The LTER program was founded with the recognition that long-term and broad-scale research is necessary for truly understanding environmental phenomena. The program was designed to provide the long-term data and information that is needed for informed decision making from a broad range of key ecosystems.
... they're doing the long-term stuff we all agree is necessary to get a better understanding of what changes are actually occurring.

The film... is infotainment, not a peer-reviewed paper.

You're hurting, you get a pass on being cranky... but let's face it, you were already predisposed to sneer at anything pro-AGW. You think they should all be out there in tents and walrus-hide kayaks?

I'd bet a penguin that if their slant was anti-AGW, you'd be citing it as a shining and rare example of conscientious research.

Anyway, it helped you pass the time as you heal. Get well soon.
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Old 10-12-2015, 06:23   #280
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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The film Antarctic Edge: 70° South is about the NSF-funded Long Term Ecological Research Network
The LTER program was founded with the recognition that long-term and broad-scale research is necessary for truly understanding environmental phenomena. The program was designed to provide the long-term data and information that is needed for informed decision making from a broad range of key ecosystems.
... they're doing the long-term stuff we all agree is necessary to get a better understanding of what changes are actually occurring.

The film... is infotainment, not a peer-reviewed paper.

You're hurting, you get a pass on being cranky... but let's face it, you were already predisposed to sneer at anything pro-AGW. You think they should all be out there in tents and walrus-hide kayaks?

I'd bet a penguin that if their slant was anti-AGW, you'd be citing it as a shining and rare example of conscientious research.

Anyway, it helped you pass the time as you heal. Get well soon.
Thanks for you kind thoughts.

Where does LTER receive their funding from? The five thousand gallon per day ship and fancy gear seems too much to raise from infotainment alone.

And for the record I aint anti AGW. I'm anti AGW BS.

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Old 10-12-2015, 06:32   #281
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

The Long Term Ecological Research (LTER) Network was created by the National Science Foundation (NSF) in 1980 to conduct research on ecological issues that can last decades and span huge geographical areas.
The LTER Network receives its greatest funding from NSF, but other Federal agencies such as the USDA Forest Service and Agricultural Research Services, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the US Geological Survey, the US Environmental Protection Agency, and the US Department of the Interior’s National Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service also support various projects at site and network levels.
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Old 10-12-2015, 06:42   #282
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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The Long Term Ecological Research (LTER) Network was created by the National Science Foundation (NSF) in 1980 to conduct research on ecological issues that can last decades and span huge geographical areas.
The LTER Network receives its greatest funding from NSF, but other Federal agencies such as the USDA Forest Service and Agricultural Research Services, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the US Geological Survey, the US Environmental Protection Agency, and the US Department of the Interior’s National Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service also support various projects at site and network levels.
Based on that alone, I would expect the "info" component of their infotainment to have been somewhat more informative.

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Old 10-12-2015, 06:52   #283
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Hold that thought.

Human expiration accounts for ~5 percent of the total human co2 emissions. Figure roughly 1 pound of co2 per person per day. Could be as high as 0.9kg per day, but I'll take the conservative estimate.
Where did you dig that up?
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:31   #284
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Where did you dig that up?
The average person, through the natural process of breathing, produces approximately 2.3 pounds (1 kg) of carbon dioxide per day.

EPA ➥ https://web.archive.org/web/20110202...ssions.html#q7

Even when I sometimes disagree with SailorChick's conclusions, I have to admit that she usually gets her facts right.
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Old 10-12-2015, 08:08   #285
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

It's not just tax dollars going into "green"...

Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg join tech titans to launch the Breakthrough Energy Coalition | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building
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