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Old 15-08-2016, 01:08   #2746
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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On or below?
The short answer is yes to both also air and land.
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Old 15-08-2016, 01:37   #2747
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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The short answer is yes to both also air and land.
So many times that I saw the depth sounder go from infinity to 30 ft made me wonder if maybe a sub was mess'n with me. Most likely sea life. However, one time heading into a port, I did have a sub surface just 50 yards from me running parallel. I can't tell you how shocking it was to suddenly see such a thing out of the corner of your eye when all your focus is on finding the next channel marker.
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Old 15-08-2016, 01:45   #2748
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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So many times that I saw the depth sounder go from infinity to 30 ft made me wonder if maybe a sub was mess'n with me. Most likely sea life. However, one time heading into a port, I did have a sub surface just 50 yards from me running parallel. I can't tell you how shocking it was to suddenly see such a thing out of the corner of your eye when all your focus is on finding the next channel marker.
I bet they were laughing at the guy that just evacuated himself at that moment.
I was never assigned to subs but I did ride them a few times.
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Old 15-08-2016, 08:02   #2749
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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The middle of an ocean is a special place indeed

Though I find it difficult not to feel a little sad and thinking no way can this last seeing so much plastic even way out there.
Atlantic anyway.

Plus we're killing all the fish, changing the pH of the seas, changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere...,the list goes on.

Oh well, that's what animals do, bacteria to big brained monkeys. So it goes.
Although I am officially undecided regarding AGW or AGC (C for cooling) I am not on the fence regarding clean air, clean water, and clean oceans. One thing I am actually thinking of doing when I start sailing on my luxury condominium aqua platform, is to conduct scientific data collection of both the water and atmosphere. There are some great gadgets you can have on board that can really aid in scientific knowledge.

I think this is one thing all sailboat owners can agree on. PVC's in the food chain in our oceans is not a good thing. Abundance of sulphuric acid particles in the atmosphere also is not a good thing. Tracking and logging what is really happening on our planet, oceans, atmosphere, by sailors is a something we all could participate in.

Let the politicians bluster and blow and scheme and plot. Science should be science and not participate in collective lunacy. Collect and analyze the data. Without bias. (if without bias is really a valid expectation or able to be achieved in our information manipulated world).

Perhaps we could have our oceans being monitored by a network of floating data collecting sailors. I also thing "sailing with a purpose" adds another dimension to recreational sailing. IMH and silly opinion.
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Old 15-08-2016, 09:27   #2750
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Perhaps we could have our oceans being monitored by a network of floating data collecting sailors. I also thing "sailing with a purpose" adds another dimension to recreational sailing. IMH and silly opinion.
Based on my experience, there was plenty of purpose available while sailing. It's called getting to your destination without sinking or breaking your boat.

Catching dinner is also an excellent use of time especially since Chinese longliners have essentially caught all the large palagics. I would be far more concerned about the fact that the seas are fast becoming devoid of fish and it seems the only thing humans care about is the weather. The catastrophy has already happened and nobody was watching.
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Old 15-08-2016, 10:32   #2751
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by UAEguy View Post
Based on my experience, there was plenty of purpose available while sailing. It's called getting to your destination without sinking or breaking your boat.

Catching dinner is also an excellent use of time especially since Chinese longliners have essentially caught all the large palagics. I would be far more concerned about the fact that the seas are fast becoming devoid of fish and it seems the only thing humans care about is the weather. The catastrophy has already happened and nobody was watching.
UAEGUY, I can't agree with you more. While the West beats itself up, the Far East countries like China are polluting, plundering our oceans and destroying the environment at an insane level.

Could some be playing the equivalent of the three cup sidewalk game. Making people look over here when over there the real issue is taking place.

It's called slight of hand or misdirection. An ingenious technique used by those practised in the art of deception. When listening to interviews in the media I am seeing more and more of this technique being used by mostly socialists. They almost always use misdirection in their talking points to shift discussion rather than engaging in intellectually honest discussion.

It is very sad what is happening with the depletion of our oceans. So very sad.
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Old 15-08-2016, 17:14   #2752
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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... the Far East countries like China are polluting, plundering our oceans and destroying the environment at an insane level.
(cough-xenophobe-cough)

GHG Emissions, per capita: US 17.5, China 6.18 (tonnes/year)
Garbage produced, per capita: US 2.6, China 1 (kg/day)

(not saying the US is the world's worst, just that one must remove the log in one's own eye before pointing out the mote in someone else's)

If you're serious about finding out who's raiding the larder, always start with the big eaters. Worst polluters? Maybe look at who throws out the most?

I think we know who's attempting the misdirection here.
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Old 15-08-2016, 19:33   #2753
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
(cough-xenophobe-cough)

GHG Emissions, per capita: US 17.5, China 6.18 (tonnes/year)
Garbage produced, per capita: US 2.6, China 1 (kg/day)

(not saying the US is the world's worst, just that one must remove the log in one's own eye before pointing out the mote in someone else's)

If you're serious about finding out who's raiding the larder, always start with the big eaters. Worst polluters? Maybe look at who throws out the most?

I think we know who's attempting the misdirection here.
I just love the per capita comparisons. They don't take into account that a large portion of the Chinese populace are subsistence farmers that dont really produce a significant measurable amount of GHG
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Old 15-08-2016, 19:34   #2754
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
(cough-xenophobe-cough)

GHG Emissions, per capita: US 17.5, China 6.18 (tonnes/year)
Garbage produced, per capita: US 2.6, China 1 (kg/day)

(not saying the US is the world's worst, just that one must remove the log in one's own eye before pointing out the mote in someone else's)

If you're serious about finding out who's raiding the larder, always start with the big eaters. Worst polluters? Maybe look at who throws out the most?

I think we know who's attempting the misdirection here.
Population of US: 320 million
Population of China: 1,360 million.

Total GHG and Garbage emissions per country: ????

Yep, we know who's attempting the misdirection here

Based on LE's argument and on this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ons_per_capita, we should all be concentrating on the activities of the "big three": Belize, Qatar and Guyana
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Old 15-08-2016, 21:11   #2755
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect
(cough-xenophobe-cough)

GHG Emissions, per capita: US 17.5, China 6.18 (tonnes/year)
Garbage produced, per capita: US 2.6, China 1 (kg/day)

(not saying the US is the world's worst, just that one must remove the log in one's own eye before pointing out the mote in someone else's)

If you're serious about finding out who's raiding the larder, always start with the big eaters. Worst polluters? Maybe look at who throws out the most?

I think we know who's attempting the misdirection here.
Population of US: 320 million
Population of China: 1,360 million.

Total GHG and Garbage emissions per country: ????
Thanks. Let's help the US draft a memo to China:
Dear China,

Despite the fact that your population is currently over 4x as large as ours, and on average, your people each burn about a third of the fossil fuel consumed by each American, and each of you generate less than 40% the trash from each of us, the incontrovertible mathematical proof provided by StuM conclusively shows that ... China pollutes more than the US. It's a FACT.

Now don't start whining that you burn so much fuel or generate so much waste because you make so much stuff for us at astoundingly low cost. So what if you did? We're a country, you're a country, you pollute more. Sucks to be you. Stop burning and wasting more than us.

Good luck though with the whole development thing.

Your customers friends,

The US of A
(this applies to most western countries, btw, not just the US)

Quote:
Yep, we know who's attempting the misdirection here
I hope you're simply misdirectin' too, in the trolling spirit of things, and not really that thick.
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Old 15-08-2016, 21:41   #2756
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

The world’s second largest economy and most populous country is now producing a greater share of CO2 emissions than both the EU and US, which pioneered the industrial revolution and the so-called second industrial revolution, a report by the Global Carbon Project found.

Emissions in 2013 were dominated by China (28 percent), the USA (14 percent), the EU (10 percent), and India (7 percent), meaning that the top four polluters account for 58 percent of total emissions.
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Old 15-08-2016, 21:46   #2757
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

The latest data shows that a record 36 billion tonnes of carbon from all human sources were emitted in 2013.

The biggest emitters were China, which produced 29% of the total, followed by the US at 15%, the EU at 10% and India at 7.1%

Top 10 emitters 2013 % of global total

China 29
USA 15
EU 10
India 7.1
Russian Federation 5.3
Japan 3.7
Germany 2.2
Republic of Korea 1.8
Iran 1.8
Saudi Arabia 1.5

But in an interesting development, China's emissions per head of population exceeding those of the European Union for the first time.
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Old 15-08-2016, 22:03   #2758
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

China caught cheating ..... As reported in the New York Times, 2015

IT IS BURNING 17% MORE COAL PER YEAR MAKING THE REPORTS DATED 2013 GROSSLY UNDER REPORTING OF CHINA'S CO2 EMISSIONS

Given the reality of miss reporting of figures tabulated by Chinese officials these new upwardly revised figures may still be an UNDER reporting of Chinese pollution.


China Burns Much More Coal Than
Reported, Complicating Climate
Talks


点击查看本文中文版 Read in Chinese

By CHRIS BUCKLEY NOV. 3, 2015

BEIJING — China, the world’s leading emitter of greenhouse gases from
coal, has been burning up to 17 percent more coal a year than the
government previously disclosed, according to newly released data.
The finding could complicate the already difficult efforts to limit global
warming.

Even for a country of China’s size, the scale of the correction is
immense. The sharp upward revision in official figures means that
China has released much more carbon dioxide — almost a billion more
tons a year according to initial calculations — than previously
estimated.

The increase alone is greater than the whole German economy
emits annually from fossil fuels.
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Old 15-08-2016, 22:08   #2759
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Thanks. Let's help the US draft a memo to China:
Dear China,

Despite the fact that your population is currently over 4x as large as ours, and on average, your people each burn about a third of the fossil fuel consumed by each American, and each of you generate less than 40% the trash from each of us, the incontrovertible mathematical proof provided by StuM conclusively shows that ... China pollutes more than the US. It's a FACT.

Now don't start whining that you burn so much fuel or generate so much waste because you make so much stuff for us at astoundingly low cost. So what if you did? We're a country, you're a country, you pollute more. Sucks to be you. Stop burning and wasting more than us.

Good luck though with the whole development thing.

Your customers friends,

The US of A
(this applies to most western countries, btw, not just the US)

I hope you're simply misdirectin' too, in the trolling spirit of things, and not really that thick.
HI Lake Effect, are you guys in Toronto still getting all that acid rain being blown a cross from China. They used to report on it 10 years ago but no one seems to be talking about it now. Should be much worse now given that China has become the world's greatest C02 polluter.

Isn't acid rain a by product of unclean coal burning. The type of unclean coal burned in China?
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Old 15-08-2016, 23:04   #2760
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Thanks. Let's help the US draft a memo to China:
Now let's draft one to Belize:

Dear Belize,

Despite the fact that your population is a lot smaller than ours, your people create four times as much greenhouse emissions as each American, and the incontrovertible mathematical proof provided by Lake Effect conclusively shows that ... Belize pollutes more than the US. It's a FACT.

Now don't start whining that you only create 1/250th of the emissions that we do in total.. So what if you do? We're a country full of people, you're a country of people, your people pollute more. Sucks to be you. Stop burning and wasting more than us.

Good luck though with the whole development thing.
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