Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-07-2016, 17:06   #2251
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,920
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
And if the trend was downward it would still be seen by the alarmist community as some kind of tragedy in the making and we'd all be reading endless waffle about sulphates and white roofs and other such nonsense, most likely.

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
So they have a pretty graph...but can they make a Climate Model that accurately predicts it and explains it based on human CO2 emissions....ah....sorry No, they can't.

See this is their game of 1/2 and 1/4 truths the MMGW Cultists play and the non-scientists get sucked right into the lie of data. 100% of Police Shootings involve the Police, so getting rid of the Police is the solution.... This is the type of false logic the Cultists fall for (willingly because it fits into their world view).
__________________
Rich Boren
Cruise RO & Schenker Water Makers
Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2016, 18:38   #2252
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 585
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Repeat after me...CLIMATE CHANGE...CLIMATE CHANGE. Global warming is what the deniers use to avoid changes in climate.

Sorry amigo...sounds like denial to me...
Maybe another classification would fit.

The Classifications of Climate Change Thinkers
fryewe is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2016, 19:16   #2253
Registered User
 
adoxograph's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ 'ʇsɐoɔ ǝuıɥsuns
Boat: Landlocked right now.
Posts: 355
Images: 1
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
Been out for a bit, so back to quibbling.....
At least he warned us. This was by far the worst post in this thread so far. It has so many factual errors that I do not even know where to start.
__________________
“As for me, I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas, and land on barbarous coasts.”
― Herman Melville, Moby-Dick
adoxograph is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2016, 19:32   #2254
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in Northern California working on the Ranch
Boat: Pearson 365 Sloop and 9' Fatty Knees.
Posts: 10,466
Images: 5
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Maybe another classification would fit.

The Classifications of Climate Change Thinkers
I love it!
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2016, 19:49   #2255
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 5,607
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Maybe another classification would fit.

The Classifications of Climate Change Thinkers
On the other end of the classification, I find it interesting how many "alarmists" and "exaggerators" refer to themselves as "warmists." And of course none of these labels mean anything except to the ideologues & partisans.

This part of the description of "alarmist" seems to explain why we keep seeing graphs that simply show warming trends without explaining how it is tied to human influences:

They [alarmists] implicitly assume that all global warming and human-caused global warming are identical.

As adoxo just pointed out, the data on warming is real (albeit conflicted), but how much humans are influencing the warming is disputed. Yet any warming has now become synonymous with MMGW thanks to all the politics & hype. I gather this is what Rich meant by half-truths, etc.
Exile is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2016, 20:16   #2256
Registered User
 
GoingWalkabout's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA & Argentina
Posts: 1,561
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

I received this email today to attend an Arctic shipping conference. They are promoting the use of the Arctic route over other sea routes.

Looks like the Arctic ice is opening up opportunities for the smart while the southern Antarctic is expanding. Who knows. One day you may be able to drive from Argentina to the South Pole.

One thing I know that is constant is that nothing is constant.


Join our 9th Arctic Shipping Summit, taking place on the 21st-22nd September 2016 in London, UK and discover the advantages of Northern Sea Route operations.

Topics to be discussed include:


Economic feasibility and profitability in the use of NSR

Details on the use of large cargo carriers in arctic shipping operations

Operational costs of Arctic Expedition

Highlighting the use of the NSR to reduce transportation time

Presentations given by:

Jukka Salminen, Chartering Manager, Arctia Shipping

David Bull, Senior Consultant, Ocean Shipping Consultants

Bjørn-Morten Batalden, Associate Professor in Maritime Operations, Arctic University of Norway

Click here>>> to receive the full agenda via e-mail

Confirmed Speakers Include

• Halldor Johannsson, Executive Director, Arctic Portal

Georgi Yorgakiev, General Manager, K Line Bulk Shipping (UK)

Mikko Rausti, Sea Personnel Manager, ESL Shipping Ltd

Leif Baarman, Safety Engineer, Deltamarin

Jukka Salminen, Chartering Manager, Arctia Shipping

Mika Mered, Managing Partner, POLARISK Group

Johanna Ikävalko, Ministerial adviser, Ministry of Transport and Communications - Finland

Niclas Karlsson, Managing Director, Clean Ship Scandinavia

Keld Qvistgaard, Head Of Ice Services, Danish Meteorological Institute / Greenland Ice Service
• David Bull, Senior Consultant, Ocean Shipping Consultants
• Dena Brownlow, Science, Technology & Health Specialist, U.S. Embassy London

Jarkko Toivola, Head of Winter Navigation Unit, Finnish Transport Agency

Paul Wilkinson, Solicitor, Gorrissen Federspiel

Bjørn-Morten Batalden, Associate Professor in Maritime Operations, Arctic University Of Norway
• Stuart Edmonston, Director Loss Prevention, Thomas Miller P&I

Høye G. Høyesen, Vice President, MacGregor Advanced Offshore Solutions

Oleg Shershunovich, Project Manager, Investco Marine Agency (IMAL)

Matti Raustia, CTO, Kyynel
• Glen Wright, President, GMATEK Inc.
GoingWalkabout is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2016, 21:03   #2257
Registered User
 
jackdale's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
Images: 1
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
I received this email today to attend an Arctic shipping conference. They are promoting the use of the Arctic route over other sea routes.

Looks like the Arctic ice is opening up opportunities for the smart while the southern Antarctic is expanding. Who knows. One day you may be able to drive from Argentina to the South Pole.
Antarctic sea has been below the mean for much of May and June and has just reached the 1981 -2010 mean.

Quote:
Antarctic sea ice extent continues to track at near average levels, in sharp contrast to the previous two winters, which were above average.
Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag

Maybe the crowd from this thread should attend and show these alarmists that they are wrong.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2016, 21:12   #2258
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 585
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Maybe the crowd from this thread should attend and show these alarmists that they are wrong.
The conference participants probably don't give a ratzazz about MMGW or labels.

This is simply astute business people who are positioning themselves to make money and grow their businesses/influence...and who are providing an opportunity for informing their community of their capabilities if/when the Arctic opens enough to allow shipping with lowered cost, time, or risk.
fryewe is offline   Reply
Old 13-07-2016, 23:01   #2259
Registered User
 
GoingWalkabout's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA & Argentina
Posts: 1,561
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
The conference participants probably don't give a ratzazz about MMGW or labels.

This is simply astute business people who are positioning themselves to make money and grow their businesses/influence...and who are providing an opportunity for informing their community of their capabilities if/when the Arctic opens enough to allow shipping with lowered cost, time, or risk.
Can't agree more. As with any geographical weather changes (and they have been happening for millenia) there's always winners and loosers. By the way this is the 8th international conference. Kind of explains why Russia has been building and deploying all these new ice breaking vessels. While all the chicken Littles are running around yelling the end of the world is nigh, Russia along with other arctic region countries are benefiting. It's worth reading the merchant shipping sites that are now talking about the money saved in using the faster arctic circle route.

I wonder if there's money to be made in buying up de iced land so far north. I'm sure the waterfront properties are going cheap.
GoingWalkabout is offline   Reply
Old 15-07-2016, 01:25   #2260
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 2,845
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Nice word salad. It would have been simpler to admit you were wrong, though.

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Good example of binary thinking, but it's (obvious to some, I suppose) not a right or wrong type question... By the way, I basically just repeated the same thing in post 2247 as in 2002 (and 1934, for that matter), but tried to explain what I meant more completely with each subsequent post. Guess I need some more work on my explanatory skills...

If a simple explanation is 'word salad' to you, it seems clear that you may not want or be able to grasp the nuances of rapid man made climate change or its' ramifications for the population at large...
jimbunyard is offline   Reply
Old 15-07-2016, 02:15   #2261
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 4,864
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
Good example of binary thinking, but it's (obvious to some, I suppose) not a right or wrong type question... By the way, I basically just repeated the same thing in post 2247 as in 2002 (and 1934, for that matter), but tried to explain what I meant more completely with each subsequent post. Guess I need some more work on my explanatory skills...

If a simple explanation is 'word salad' to you, it seems clear that you may not want or be able to grasp the nuances of rapid man made climate change or its' ramifications for the population at large...
Well my good fellow, if you can keep it to 5000 words or less, please erudiate us with the ramifications for the population at large. And no cheating with sea level rise, polar ice melt, raised atmospheric CO2, higher global average temperatures, powerful hurricanes, super storms, extreme droughts, mega floods, heatwaves, polar vortexes, pine beetle plagues or el nino's. These conditions had occurred many times in the past well before 1941 rolled around on the calendar, after all.
Reefmagnet is offline   Reply
Old 15-07-2016, 02:15   #2262
Registered User
 
adoxograph's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ 'ʇsɐoɔ ǝuıɥsuns
Boat: Landlocked right now.
Posts: 355
Images: 1
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
Good example of binary thinking, but it's (obvious to some, I suppose) not a right or wrong type question... By the way, I basically just repeated the same thing in post 2247 as in 2002 (and 1934, for that matter), but tried to explain what I meant more completely with each subsequent post. Guess I need some more work on my explanatory skills...

If a simple explanation is 'word salad' to you, it seems clear that you may not want or be able to grasp the nuances of rapid man made climate change or its' ramifications for the population at large...
I don't mind your word salad, but I you got most of your facts completely wrong.
__________________
“As for me, I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas, and land on barbarous coasts.”
― Herman Melville, Moby-Dick
adoxograph is offline   Reply
Old 15-07-2016, 06:22   #2263
Registered User
 
jackdale's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
Images: 1
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
The conference participants probably don't give a ratzazz about MMGW or labels.

This is simply astute business people who are positioning themselves to make money and grow their businesses/influence...and who are providing an opportunity for informing their community of their capabilities if/when the Arctic opens enough to allow shipping with lowered cost, time, or risk.
But the OP says it is getting cooler.

Please note that I have been saying the NWP and NSR (two different) routes will be open for traffic.
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply
Old 15-07-2016, 06:28   #2264
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 585
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
But the OP says it is getting cooler.

Please note that I have been saying the NWP and NSR (two different) routes will be open for traffic.
The summary slide for most PPT alarmist science is a rapidly up-sloping "global average temperature" vs. time plot.

Would it be possible that the Arctic could warm enough for a viable trade route part of the year with the "global average temperature" lower? After all, it can be cooler in one area and hotter in another, right? Even the MWP was just a regional phenomenon. (sarc off_
fryewe is offline   Reply
Old 15-07-2016, 06:53   #2265
Registered User
 
jackdale's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,252
Images: 1
Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Would it be possible that the Arctic could warm enough for a viable trade route part of the year with the "global average temperature" lower? After all, it can be cooler in one area and hotter in another, right? Even the MWP was just a regional phenomenon. (sarc off_
So answer your question. And provide some evidence to support it.

BTW the climate models predicted that the Arctic will warm faster.

Arrhenius, S.A. 1896. "On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground." Philosophical Magazine 41, 237-276.

Manabe, S., and R.J. Stouffer. 1980. "Sensitivity of a global climate model to an increase of CO2 concentration in the atmosphere." Journal of Geophysical Research 85, 5529–5554.

Quote:
The Arctic region is warmer than it used to be and it continues to get warmer. Over the past 30 years, it has warmed more than any other region on earth. Most scientists agree that Arctic weather and climate are changing because of human-caused climate change.

This image shows trends in mean surface air temperature over the period 1960 to 2011. Notice that the Arctic is red, indicating that the trend over this 50 year period is for an increase in air temperature of more that 2° C (3.6° F) across much of the Arctic, which is larger than for other parts of the globe. The inset shows linear trends over the period by latitude.

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/arctic-...te_change.html
__________________
CRYA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator, Sail
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply
Closed Thread

Tags
arc, cooling, cruising

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I love cruising because it teaches humility zboss General Sailing Forum 38 17-09-2014 19:38
A Boat Is Better than a Wife, Because . . . BlueWaterSail Flotsam & Sailing Miscellany 94 20-02-2011 19:10
Current Strategies in Solar Power ? Roy M Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 47 18-07-2010 05:37
i'm Really a Tiller Guy, because i Like the Responsiveness of a Multihull... Pipeline Multihull Sailboats 2 08-01-2010 07:32
Men return to Mountains and to the Sea because.... JohnnyB Challenges 4 10-10-2008 08:48

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:13.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.