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Old 13-07-2016, 18:06   #2251
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
And if the trend was downward it would still be seen by the alarmist community as some kind of tragedy in the making and we'd all be reading endless waffle about sulphates and white roofs and other such nonsense, most likely.

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So they have a pretty graph...but can they make a Climate Model that accurately predicts it and explains it based on human CO2 emissions....ah....sorry No, they can't.

See this is their game of 1/2 and 1/4 truths the MMGW Cultists play and the non-scientists get sucked right into the lie of data. 100% of Police Shootings involve the Police, so getting rid of the Police is the solution.... This is the type of false logic the Cultists fall for (willingly because it fits into their world view).
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Old 13-07-2016, 19:38   #2252
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Repeat after me...CLIMATE CHANGE...CLIMATE CHANGE. Global warming is what the deniers use to avoid changes in climate.

Sorry amigo...sounds like denial to me...
Maybe another classification would fit.

The Classifications of Climate Change Thinkers
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Old 13-07-2016, 20:16   #2253
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Been out for a bit, so back to quibbling.....
At least he warned us. This was by far the worst post in this thread so far. It has so many factual errors that I do not even know where to start.
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Old 13-07-2016, 20:32   #2254
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Maybe another classification would fit.

The Classifications of Climate Change Thinkers
I love it!
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Old 13-07-2016, 20:49   #2255
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Maybe another classification would fit.

The Classifications of Climate Change Thinkers
On the other end of the classification, I find it interesting how many "alarmists" and "exaggerators" refer to themselves as "warmists." And of course none of these labels mean anything except to the ideologues & partisans.

This part of the description of "alarmist" seems to explain why we keep seeing graphs that simply show warming trends without explaining how it is tied to human influences:

They [alarmists] implicitly assume that all global warming and human-caused global warming are identical.

As adoxo just pointed out, the data on warming is real (albeit conflicted), but how much humans are influencing the warming is disputed. Yet any warming has now become synonymous with MMGW thanks to all the politics & hype. I gather this is what Rich meant by half-truths, etc.
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Old 13-07-2016, 21:16   #2256
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

I received this email today to attend an Arctic shipping conference. They are promoting the use of the Arctic route over other sea routes.

Looks like the Arctic ice is opening up opportunities for the smart while the southern Antarctic is expanding. Who knows. One day you may be able to drive from Argentina to the South Pole.

One thing I know that is constant is that nothing is constant.


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Leif Baarman, Safety Engineer, Deltamarin

Jukka Salminen, Chartering Manager, Arctia Shipping

Mika Mered, Managing Partner, POLARISK Group

Johanna Ikävalko, Ministerial adviser, Ministry of Transport and Communications - Finland

Niclas Karlsson, Managing Director, Clean Ship Scandinavia

Keld Qvistgaard, Head Of Ice Services, Danish Meteorological Institute / Greenland Ice Service
• David Bull, Senior Consultant, Ocean Shipping Consultants
• Dena Brownlow, Science, Technology & Health Specialist, U.S. Embassy London

Jarkko Toivola, Head of Winter Navigation Unit, Finnish Transport Agency

Paul Wilkinson, Solicitor, Gorrissen Federspiel

Bjørn-Morten Batalden, Associate Professor in Maritime Operations, Arctic University Of Norway
• Stuart Edmonston, Director Loss Prevention, Thomas Miller P&I

Høye G. Høyesen, Vice President, MacGregor Advanced Offshore Solutions

Oleg Shershunovich, Project Manager, Investco Marine Agency (IMAL)

Matti Raustia, CTO, Kyynel
• Glen Wright, President, GMATEK Inc.
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Old 13-07-2016, 22:03   #2257
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
I received this email today to attend an Arctic shipping conference. They are promoting the use of the Arctic route over other sea routes.

Looks like the Arctic ice is opening up opportunities for the smart while the southern Antarctic is expanding. Who knows. One day you may be able to drive from Argentina to the South Pole.
Antarctic sea has been below the mean for much of May and June and has just reached the 1981 -2010 mean.

Quote:
Antarctic sea ice extent continues to track at near average levels, in sharp contrast to the previous two winters, which were above average.
Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag

Maybe the crowd from this thread should attend and show these alarmists that they are wrong.
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Old 13-07-2016, 22:12   #2258
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Maybe the crowd from this thread should attend and show these alarmists that they are wrong.
The conference participants probably don't give a ratzazz about MMGW or labels.

This is simply astute business people who are positioning themselves to make money and grow their businesses/influence...and who are providing an opportunity for informing their community of their capabilities if/when the Arctic opens enough to allow shipping with lowered cost, time, or risk.
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Old 14-07-2016, 00:01   #2259
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
The conference participants probably don't give a ratzazz about MMGW or labels.

This is simply astute business people who are positioning themselves to make money and grow their businesses/influence...and who are providing an opportunity for informing their community of their capabilities if/when the Arctic opens enough to allow shipping with lowered cost, time, or risk.
Can't agree more. As with any geographical weather changes (and they have been happening for millenia) there's always winners and loosers. By the way this is the 8th international conference. Kind of explains why Russia has been building and deploying all these new ice breaking vessels. While all the chicken Littles are running around yelling the end of the world is nigh, Russia along with other arctic region countries are benefiting. It's worth reading the merchant shipping sites that are now talking about the money saved in using the faster arctic circle route.

I wonder if there's money to be made in buying up de iced land so far north. I'm sure the waterfront properties are going cheap.
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Old 15-07-2016, 02:25   #2260
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Nice word salad. It would have been simpler to admit you were wrong, though.

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Good example of binary thinking, but it's (obvious to some, I suppose) not a right or wrong type question... By the way, I basically just repeated the same thing in post 2247 as in 2002 (and 1934, for that matter), but tried to explain what I meant more completely with each subsequent post. Guess I need some more work on my explanatory skills...

If a simple explanation is 'word salad' to you, it seems clear that you may not want or be able to grasp the nuances of rapid man made climate change or its' ramifications for the population at large...
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Old 15-07-2016, 03:15   #2261
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
Good example of binary thinking, but it's (obvious to some, I suppose) not a right or wrong type question... By the way, I basically just repeated the same thing in post 2247 as in 2002 (and 1934, for that matter), but tried to explain what I meant more completely with each subsequent post. Guess I need some more work on my explanatory skills...

If a simple explanation is 'word salad' to you, it seems clear that you may not want or be able to grasp the nuances of rapid man made climate change or its' ramifications for the population at large...
Well my good fellow, if you can keep it to 5000 words or less, please erudiate us with the ramifications for the population at large. And no cheating with sea level rise, polar ice melt, raised atmospheric CO2, higher global average temperatures, powerful hurricanes, super storms, extreme droughts, mega floods, heatwaves, polar vortexes, pine beetle plagues or el nino's. These conditions had occurred many times in the past well before 1941 rolled around on the calendar, after all.
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Old 15-07-2016, 03:15   #2262
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Good example of binary thinking, but it's (obvious to some, I suppose) not a right or wrong type question... By the way, I basically just repeated the same thing in post 2247 as in 2002 (and 1934, for that matter), but tried to explain what I meant more completely with each subsequent post. Guess I need some more work on my explanatory skills...

If a simple explanation is 'word salad' to you, it seems clear that you may not want or be able to grasp the nuances of rapid man made climate change or its' ramifications for the population at large...
I don't mind your word salad, but I you got most of your facts completely wrong.
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Old 15-07-2016, 07:22   #2263
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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The conference participants probably don't give a ratzazz about MMGW or labels.

This is simply astute business people who are positioning themselves to make money and grow their businesses/influence...and who are providing an opportunity for informing their community of their capabilities if/when the Arctic opens enough to allow shipping with lowered cost, time, or risk.
But the OP says it is getting cooler.

Please note that I have been saying the NWP and NSR (two different) routes will be open for traffic.
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Old 15-07-2016, 07:28   #2264
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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But the OP says it is getting cooler.

Please note that I have been saying the NWP and NSR (two different) routes will be open for traffic.
The summary slide for most PPT alarmist science is a rapidly up-sloping "global average temperature" vs. time plot.

Would it be possible that the Arctic could warm enough for a viable trade route part of the year with the "global average temperature" lower? After all, it can be cooler in one area and hotter in another, right? Even the MWP was just a regional phenomenon. (sarc off_
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Old 15-07-2016, 07:53   #2265
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Would it be possible that the Arctic could warm enough for a viable trade route part of the year with the "global average temperature" lower? After all, it can be cooler in one area and hotter in another, right? Even the MWP was just a regional phenomenon. (sarc off_
So answer your question. And provide some evidence to support it.

BTW the climate models predicted that the Arctic will warm faster.

Arrhenius, S.A. 1896. "On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground." Philosophical Magazine 41, 237-276.

Manabe, S., and R.J. Stouffer. 1980. "Sensitivity of a global climate model to an increase of CO2 concentration in the atmosphere." Journal of Geophysical Research 85, 5529–5554.

Quote:
The Arctic region is warmer than it used to be and it continues to get warmer. Over the past 30 years, it has warmed more than any other region on earth. Most scientists agree that Arctic weather and climate are changing because of human-caused climate change.

This image shows trends in mean surface air temperature over the period 1960 to 2011. Notice that the Arctic is red, indicating that the trend over this 50 year period is for an increase in air temperature of more that 2° C (3.6° F) across much of the Arctic, which is larger than for other parts of the globe. The inset shows linear trends over the period by latitude.

https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/arctic-...te_change.html
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