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Old 30-06-2016, 06:31   #1876
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Read the labels.

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Cute...and "succinct"...but...

Quote:
Cloud effects are a significant area of uncertainty in climate models. Clouds have competing effects on climate. They cool the surface by reflecting sunlight into space; they warm it by increasing the amount of infrared radiation transmitted from the atmosphere to the surface. In the 2001 IPCC report possible changes in cloud cover were highlighted as a major uncertainty in predicting climate.
from Wikipedia, for its "succintness"

They're still a major uncertainty, but that doesn't prevent putting numbers from "calculations" in graphics.
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Old 30-06-2016, 06:43   #1877
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Read the labels.

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The cloud's providing us with "sensible heat" lol.

And does greenhouse gas include water vapour? Because if it does, the graph is nonsensical in reference to co2 contribution to warming.

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Old 30-06-2016, 06:59   #1878
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Cute...and "succinct"...but...

from Wikipedia, for its "succintness"

They're still a major uncertainty, but that doesn't prevent putting numbers from "calculations" in graphics.
Yes, I have already indicated the the role of clouds is not well understood.

But that is not a reason for not taking action against a known GHG.
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:02   #1879
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Must be the pain killers.

On second thought...nahhh.

Hope you're fully healed soon.
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:04   #1880
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
The cloud's providing us with "sensible heat" lol.

And does greenhouse gas include water vapour? Because if it does, the graph is nonsensical in reference to co2 contribution to warming.

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Here let NASA fill in some of the gaps in your education.

Latent and Sensible Heat | Climate Education Modules for K-12

Please explain why "the graph is nonsensical in reference to co2 contribution to warming."
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:04   #1881
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Yes, I have already indicated the the role of clouds is not well understood.

But that is not a reason for not taking action against a known GHG.
Cloud effect on temperatures is quite easy for me cloudy day means cooler ( but that's just weather) cloudy at night usually it keeps things a bit warmer ( they call that climate change but again just weather)
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:10   #1882
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Cloud effect on temperatures is quite easy for me cloudy day means cooler ( but that's just weather) cloudy at night usually it keeps things a bit warmer ( they call that climate change but again just weather)
Nice straw man. You beat it to death. Good on you. You should feel proud.

Yes, that is weather. If the cloud cover changes over long periods of time it affects climate.
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:20   #1883
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Here let NASA fill in some of the gaps in your education.

Latent and Sensible Heat | Climate Education Modules for K-12

Please explain why "the graph is nonsensical in reference to co2 contribution to warming."
I don't need no education
I don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the forum
Teacher, leave us skeptics alone.

And, Umm, because "Greenhouse gases" <>CO2

For your education https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas



And in another blow to settled science, here's a pretty graphic sporting a different set of numbers...


And now some food for thought. If the Earth's average temperature is 14 degrees Celsius, and we set our thermostats to between 20 and 25 degrees Celsius, aka "room temperature" how come you alarmists fear warming so much?

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Old 30-06-2016, 07:34   #1884
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
I don't need no education
I don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the forum
Teacher, leave us skeptics alone.

And, Umm, because "Greenhouse gases" <>CO2

For your education https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas



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Another straw man. You successfully beat it to death.

Other GHGs are recognized and H2O is recognized by the IPCC as the predominate one.

CO2 is one of GHGs over which we have some control. The 40% increase over the past 2.5 centuries to directly linked to the burning of fossil fuels. The increase in CO2 has also lead to an increase the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere.
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:36   #1885
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post

And now some food for thought. If the Earth's average temperature is 14 degrees Celsius, and we set our thermostats to between 20 and 25 degrees Celsius, aka "room temperature" how come you alarmists fear warming so much?

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Are you really that naive?
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:57   #1886
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

Meanwhilein the Arctic the Canadian gov site shows the mwp archipelago is still basicly frozen in . I'm still waiting to see what was predicted to have already happened.
Environment and Climate Change Canada - Weather and Meteorology - Full resolution map
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Old 30-06-2016, 07:59   #1887
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
And in another blow to settled science, here's a pretty graphic sporting a different set of numbers...



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You really like those straw man don't you? Very few climate scientists said the science is settled.

From the description of the grpah you presented.

Quote:
This figure is a simplified, schematic representation of the flows of energy between space, the atmosphere, and the Earth's surface, and shows how these flows combine to trap heat near the surface and create the greenhouse effect. Energy exchanges are expressed in watts per square meter (W/m2) and derived from Kiehl & Trenberth (1997). The figure does not appear clear. I would change the 195 to atmospheric radiation into space, as it does not include the 40 radiated from the surface. Complete figure: (Earth's Annual Global Mean Energy Budget (Kiehl and Trenberth, 1997 )) The sun is responsible for virtually all energy that reaches the Earth's surface. Direct overhead sunlight at the top of the atmosphere provides 1366 W/m2; however, geometric effects and reflective surfaces limit the light which is absorbed at the typical location to an annual average of ~235 W/m2. If this were the total heat received at the surface, then, neglecting changes in albedo, the Earth's surface would be expected to have an average temperature of -18 C (Lashof 1989). Of the surface heat captured by the atmosphere, more than 75% can be attributed to the action of greenhouse gases that absorb thermal radiation emitted by the Earth's surface. The atmosphere in turn transfers the energy it receives both into space (38%) and back to the Earth's surface (62%), where the amount transferred in each direction depends on the thermal and density structure of the atmosphere. This process by which energy is recycled in the atmosphere to warm the Earth's surface is known as the greenhouse effect and is an essential piece of Earth's climate. Under stable conditions, the total amount of energy entering the system from solar radiation will exactly balance the amount being radiated into space, thus allowing the Earth to maintain a constant average temperature over time. However, recent measurements indicate that the Earth is presently absorbing 0.85 0.15 W/m2 more than it emits into space (Hansen et al. 2005). An overwhelming majority of climate scientists believe that this asymmetry in the flow of energy has been significantly increased by human emissions of greenhouse gases [1]. This figure was created by Robert A. Rohde from published data and is part of the Global Warming Art project.
The one I presented was from 2013, AR5.
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Old 30-06-2016, 08:02   #1888
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Meanwhilein the Arctic the Canadian gov site shows the mwp archipelago is still basicly frozen in . I'm still waiting to see what was predicted to have already happened.
Environment and Climate Change Canada - Weather and Meteorology - Full resolution map
See you on September 13 which is about when the ice extent will be at its minimum.
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Old 30-06-2016, 08:16   #1889
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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See you on September 13 which is about when the ice extent will be at its minimum.
Yep I keep watching and posting the data just attempting to bring things back towards the basis of this thread in the first place. ( I still say ice breakers play a larger role than ppl are willing to admit or accept)
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Old 30-06-2016, 08:21   #1890
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Meanwhilein the Arctic the Canadian gov site shows the mwp archipelago is still basicly frozen in . I'm still waiting to see what was predicted to have already happened.
Environment and Climate Change Canada - Weather and Meteorology - Full resolution map
Here is the ice extant for last year.

https://youtu.be/nWXvIYcdGWM

This yacht was been through the NWP twice

https://youtu.be/A1Qx8U6mu6A
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