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Old 20-06-2016, 07:04   #1501
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
...But of course this is basic to more left-wing ideology that prefers putting an all-knowing cadre of "elites" in charge of dictating what's best for everyone else. And therein lies much of the explanation for the political divide surrounding what should be an issue resolved by science alone.
wow. It's a full-on, gloves-off political BS blitzkreig!

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Not sure about your ad hoc polling, but it's a safe bet that if you & others honestly presented the true estimated costs of reducing carbon emissions as opposed to the theoretical benefits.
The "true estimated cost" . That's when you pull a ridiculous made-up number from your exhaust and we have to agree with it, yes? At the same time that you ignore the costs of doing nothing, and have zero ideas on the table re adaptation, let alone their costs.

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Old 20-06-2016, 07:07   #1502
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Oy, wot abart me!

One of the advantages of living on a cat.
800W of solar going into the house bank and a high percentage of the extra that comes in through my shore power connection is hydro generated.
Stu,

I keep waiting for the greenie global warming enthusiasts to say that you're EVIL because you are promoting global warming with all those BLACK panels which get hot in the sun. If you don't want to be labeled as such, you ought to paint them WHITE !

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Old 20-06-2016, 07:12   #1503
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Could have something to do with what was posted prior that the children that are now in their late teens and early 20's are and were being force fed the MMGW meme in school .

I consider the GW enthusiasts tactics as "Bullying the opposition".
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Old 20-06-2016, 07:27   #1504
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Stu,

I keep waiting for the greenie global warming enthusiasts to say that you're EVIL because you are promoting global warming with all those BLACK panels which get hot in the sun. If you don't want to be labeled as such, you ought to paint them WHITE !

Don't forget the fossil fuels expended in the production of solar panels. AGW proponents seem to have a lot of trouble recognizing how pervasive fossil fuels are in our society. It's not a question of favoring, disfavoring, or being indifferent about that undisputed fact -- it's just a fact.
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Old 20-06-2016, 08:34   #1505
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Don't forget the fossil fuels expended in the production of solar panels. AGW proponents seem to have a lot of trouble recognizing how pervasive fossil fuels are in our society. It's not a question of favoring, disfavoring, or being indifferent about that undisputed fact -- it's just a fact.
O ye of little faith...


NASA Unveils Plans for Electric-Powered Plane |
New York Times
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A new experimental airplane being built by NASA could help push electric-powered aviation from a technical curiosity and pipe dream into something that might become commercially viable for small aircraft.

At a conference on Friday of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics in Washington, Charles F. Bolden Jr., the NASA administrator, announced plans for an all-electric airplane designated as X-57, part of the agency’s efforts to make aviation more efficient and less of a polluter.[...]

The steps taken by NASA will not translate into all-electric cross-country jetliners. But the agency hopes the technology can be incorporated into smaller, general aviation and commuter aircraft some years from now.[...]

“The problem with traditional aircraft design is you have to size the wings so that you have safe takeoff and landing speeds, and so the wing tends to end up bigger than you need for cruise flight,” said Sean Clarke, co-principal investigator for the project at NASA’s Armstrong Flight Research Center in Edwards, Calif.

For the X-57, the NASA researchers are designing narrower wings that are efficient during cruise flight, powered by two 60-kilowatt electric motors at the wingtips that spin five-foot-wide propellers.

For takeoff and landing, 12 smaller 9-kilowatt motors powering two-foot-wide propellers will kick in to blow extra air over the skinny wings to generate the necessary lift. In flight, the smaller propellers are folded away.[...]

Operational costs could be cut by as much as 40 percent, and electric motors are much quieter.

The design does not overcome the shortcomings of electric propulsion. Its 800 pounds of batteries will replace the rear two passenger seats, and the seat next to the pilot will be replaced with instrumentation, leaving space for only the pilot and no passengers. It can stay aloft for only about one hour.

Mr. Clarke said the technology could be scaled upward for commuter or regional airliners, and NASA is investigating using fuel cells rather than batteries to provide the electricity. But limits in the speed of propeller-driven aircraft means they are unlikely for cross-country airline flights. “I think all-electric would be a stretch for jetliners,” he said.[...]

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Old 20-06-2016, 08:45   #1506
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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wow. It's a full-on, gloves-off political BS blitzkreig!

Nope. Just another dose of reality. The type of govt. regulatory structure required to offset the purported alarmist impacts would necessitate a much larger bureaucratic apparatus and more centralized planning. There's a cost to that type of govt. But you don't have to take my word for it, just look at the growth in size & reach of the US EPA over the past 7 years. The US Supreme Court recently put at least a temporary halt to an unelected and thus unresponsive regulatory agency usurping powers delegated to it by Congress under the Clean Air Act. Again, my personal opinion or yours about whether this type of more authoritarian govt. is a good idea or not is irrelevant -- all that matters is that it be taken into account & understood when people respond to one of SailOar's polls about whether they think we should do something about the threat of GW.

The "true estimated cost" . That's when you pull a ridiculous made-up number from your exhaust and we have to agree with it, yes? At the same time that you ignore the costs of doing nothing, and have zero ideas on the table re adaptation, let alone their costs.

Not my numbers, but ones from the IPCC and Paris accords. Is this not correct? You vehemently objected to Delfin when he used these same "official" sources but never demonstrated why the numbers he cited were wrong. As I've suggested, cut them in half and then do your own analysis. Rather than the constant critiques in response to what others offer to the thread, why don't you offer some substance? What do you specifically believe are the costs of doing nothing and why? What do you think would be an appropriate substitute remedy in lieu of adaptation? Why are you so eager to solicit and then criticize other posters' solutions but then refuse to offer any of your own? Instead, you offer nothing but talk, and talk is cheap . . . .

Folks, Exile is BACK!
I'm beginning to think you missed me.
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Old 20-06-2016, 08:49   #1507
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Excellent! But too bad it's still experimental and, according to the article, not suitable for cross-country flights. But this only proves the point of the other thread, namely that technology is the answer as it always has been, and we cannot yet foresee what technology will bring to bear on the problem in the coming years & decades.
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Old 20-06-2016, 09:21   #1508
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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[numbers] from the IPCC and Paris accords. Is this not correct? You vehemently objected to Delfin when he used these same "official" sources but never demonstrated why the numbers he cited were wrong.
I did, actually. Look it up if you forgot. The gist is - all the handwaving about costs is just that; no one is proposing an irrevokable all-in commitment of trillions or the complete reorganization of society, that you have to choose NOW. And you're still in a democracy, at least til next January. This is just a lame excuse that you and D remain fond of.

Quote:
Rather than the constant critiques in response to what others offer to the thread, why don't you offer some substance?
Hi. Remember me? I'm the one who thinks that the subject matter experts have given us, and continue to give us the best perspective on the issue.

You're the one twisting yourself into a logical pretzel to oppose the prevailing conclusions. I've seen what you do with information of real substance. You ignore it.

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... technology is the answer as it always has been, and we cannot yet foresee what technology will bring to bear on the problem in the coming years & decades.
Technology doesn't occur spontaneously. It needs to be developed. Yet you don't seem to see any need to foster or support development, let alone recognise a problem that technology should be brought to bear upon. Nice.
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Old 20-06-2016, 09:38   #1509
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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I did, actually. Look it up if you forgot. The gist is - all the handwaving about costs is just that; no one is proposing an irrevokable all-in commitment of trillions or the complete reorganization of society, that you have to choose NOW. And you're still in a democracy, at least til next January. This is just a lame excuse that you and D remain fond of.

YOU provided actual numbers?? Not that I recall but I'm happy to be corrected. Surely something that specific can be easily offered up again. As I said, I learned a few things from both Delfin and Mr__f from the other thread, but don't really care to waddle through all the useless insults & distractions to get to it again. Besides, I don't recall Delfin's reference to the IPCC/Paris numbers being wrong. The objections seemed to be more about the conclusions drawn. Showing us would be more convincing that it's a "lame excuse." Otherwise, it's just more talk & hyperbole.

Hi. Remember me? I'm the one who thinks that the subject matter experts have given us, and continue to give us the best perspective on the issue.

Which "subject matter experts?" And what are the remedies besides adaptation? C'mon, I'm not the one who rejected adaptation out of hand. And yes, I am no expert on what exactly adaptation means, especially when science has yet to provide us with credible impacts. What's wrong with saying "I don't know?"

You're the one twisting yourself into a logical pretzel to oppose the prevailing conclusions. I've seen what you do with information of real substance. You ignore it.
Examples? You think it's possible that reasonable minds can differ on what constitutes "information of real substance??" Are you really THAT much smarter than actual scientists & those with technical backgrounds who have presented cogent arguments in opposition to your "subject matter experts?"
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Old 20-06-2016, 09:41   #1510
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Technology doesn't occur spontaneously. It needs to be developed. Yet you don't seem to see any need to foster or support development, let alone recognise a problem that technology should be brought to bear upon. Nice.
Your ranting is sounding a bit desperate at this point. Is there anyone who has posted in these threads that doesn't "see any need to foster or support development, let alone recognise a problem that technology should be brought to bear upon???"
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Old 20-06-2016, 09:46   #1511
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

From an actual scientist.

Water Vapor Vs Carbon Dioxide: Which 'Wins' In Climate Warming?

http://flip.it/yCrPO

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Old 20-06-2016, 09:59   #1512
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Funny thing about Doctors and meds.

Local GP's will load a patient up on a variety, I kid you not, I would often see patients come into the hospital with a daily prescription of 20 meds, which according to patient "were vital to their wellbeing" and then watch my staff reduce the med list to about 3, and the patient improve almost immediately.

I learned early that less is more.

Ive never prescribed a Statin in my life. There is enough information out there for a self informed decision to be made.

Hi Weavis,

Apart from our minor difference on AED's I have respect for you as a Doctor. More so as a result of this posting.

I'm afraid a lot of Doctors in the United States have forgotten the first principal of medicine which is, do no harm. There isn't a drug that doesn't have an adverse reaction. Add to that the adverse interactions and you are looking at recipe of medicine concoctions that can and in many cases do cause serious long term harm.

How brave of you to intervene. It's a shame many Doctors don't stop to think about the ever spiralling I'll effects that are not only compounded but in fact caused by multiple medications.



Ps: this doesn't mean medicine per second is bad. The right application of medicine does save lives.
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Old 20-06-2016, 10:13   #1513
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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... 800 pounds of batteries will replace the rear two passenger seats, and the seat next to the pilot will be replaced with instrumentation, leaving space for only the pilot and no passengers. It can stay aloft for only about one hour...
The Wright Brothers did order-of-magnitude as well with bicycle sprocket and chain. Much more environmentally friendly.

Wonder how much fossil fuel was used to build the plane and its component parts?

I guess it could be used for commuting from the 'burbs to the job, but you'd need to build a scad of small airports and have fleets of Ubers or rental mopeds at the ready to ferry the commuters from the port to the office.

Wonder how the air traffic control would be managed? Make them self driving, I suppose. That way, anyone could have one.

Compared with the achievements of Solar Impulse and Solar Impulse 2 (which left NY on a nonstop TransAtlantic trip this morning), this seems passe.
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Old 20-06-2016, 10:57   #1514
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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Your ranting is sounding a bit desperate at this point. Is there anyone who has posted in these threads that doesn't "see any need to foster or support development, let alone recognise a problem that technology should be brought to bear upon???"
You.

(and congrats for bringing it on. Don't peak too early; it's only Monday)
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Old 20-06-2016, 11:26   #1515
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Re: Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooli

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You.
Wrong again. Technology is the answer, and will help us adapt to a future climate that's always changing. This was the starting & continuing theme of the last thread, a position I've always held, and obviously one of the points that provokes you & others into taking the CC issue so personally. Apparently any proposal that doesn't (unrealistically) call for the abolition or a dramatic cutback in fossil fuels draws your derision. I hope you're enjoying your little fantasy world while you drive your car and heat your home.

Apparently you have plenty of time today to rant & rave, post emotional irrelevancies, and transparently mischaracterize my positions. Maybe you could segway yourself more productively by re-posting those numbers showing the costs vs. benefits of remedial actions as published by Paris and/or the IPCC.
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