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Old 28-02-2011, 19:30   #121
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

We met these people in Galle Sri Lanka several weeks ago. We were tied to ING which was tied to the concrete wharf in Sri Lanka.

On 25 Feb we received the news that they had been boarded by pirates on 24 Feb...see attached chart.

These were nice gentle people with beautiful teenage children. The father told me that he was not worried about pirates because he was going to stick to recommended routes i.e. Jimmy Cornell, IRTC, etc. He said that no yachts had ever been taken while sticking to recommended routes. Our conversation was 2 weeks prior to Quest. They left the dock in Sri Lanka, headed for the Maldives with plans to go from the Maldives to the IRTC.

We assume that the reason that this information was kept quite by the Danish government was to protect the crew of the ING while some operation was attempted.

BTW, ING was named for the large financial group. The owner of ING told me that before he bought the boat that it had been in a race sponsored by ING. He checked into removing the ING logos from the hull and sails. He said when he found out how much this would cost, that he believed ING was a good name for the boat, so he named it ING.

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Old 28-02-2011, 20:30   #122
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

About the best we can do right now is keep these folks in our thoughts and prayers, and perhaps act on an earlier suggestion and try to apply pressure to our elected officials via proper channels to get the issue of piracy bumped up in importance. The whole "squeeky wheel" approach.

There are no simple methods for rescue, unfortunately. With luck, cooler heads will prevail as this is all about money at the final analysis and once the hostage is gone you go from being a negoitator to a target (not much profit in that).

I do not envy the moderators their jobs on this one. I've done my venting off-board to a few friends with military backgrounds. If nothing else, it did show just how creative we still are in middle-age!

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Old 28-02-2011, 20:41   #123
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

I think an important point has been overlooked. Simply avoiding their present operating area may no longer be enough to ensure your safety. After many years of successful raiding they have the vessels (captured), crews and technology (captured), and weapons purchased with ransom money to operate any where they may choose. This should have been squashed long ago, before it became a lucrative business for the Warlord types.
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Old 28-02-2011, 21:01   #124
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

I view cruising these waters akin to knowingly sailing into a CAT 4-5 hurricane or cyclone and hoping that you will live to tell the tale. This part of the world is well known to be dangerous, lawless and to be entered at your own peril. My heart goes out those who have been taken and their families back home whether in the US or Europe. As any other seagoing adventure, we should not count on someone else (navies, diplomatic service, rich family member or aquaintances, etc) to pull us out of a situation in which we have put ourselves knowing full well the risks we were assuming. Part of a skippers' job is risk assessment and with all the information available on the state of marine unrest off Somalia and reaching into the Indian Ocean, IMHO I would not undertake such a passage. If there are no ships to pirate, there would be no pirates. Capt Phil
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Old 28-02-2011, 21:12   #125
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
I think an important point has been overlooked. Simply avoiding their present operating area may no longer be enough to ensure your safety. After many years of successful raiding they have the vessels (captured), crews and technology (captured), and weapons purchased with ransom money to operate any where they may choose. This should have been squashed long ago, before it became a lucrative business for the Warlord types.
Jesse
They certainly have longer reach and have become bolder, but I suspect they will always need to get their captured boats and hostages back to Somalia.
Hopefully this will limit their hunting ground to the parts of the Indian Ocean they currently operate.

While they are reaching into the Seychelles, they are getting strong government resistance there, and maybe Mauritius and Reunion are too far out of the high volume shipping lanes to be attractive.
It's my impression ships are still the major target, and yachts more an opportunistic bonus.

Could be a good time to open a cruisers bar in Mauritius or Reunion!

Vic
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Old 28-02-2011, 21:15   #126
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
I view cruising these waters akin to knowingly sailing into a CAT 4-5 hurricane or cyclone and hoping that you will live to tell the tale. This part of the world is well known to be dangerous, lawless and to be entered at your own peril. My heart goes out those who have been taken and their families back home whether in the US or Europe. As any other seagoing adventure, we should not count on someone else (navies, diplomatic service, rich family member or aquaintances, etc) to pull us out of a situation in which we have put ourselves knowing full well the risks we were assuming. Part of a skippers' job is risk assessment and with all the information available on the state of marine unrest off Somalia and reaching into the Indian Ocean, IMHO I would not undertake such a passage. If there are no ships to pirate, there would be no pirates. Capt Phil
good post and good points,but it seems that thinking does not prevail,

the next bwr assumes its going to be okay to go through there in 2 years time,cut and paste of the next rally,just released.

would really think common sense would prevail and they take the southern,safe route.......................

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Old 28-02-2011, 23:32   #127
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

Something I have seen no where discussed is the idea of simply disarming the "Pirates". I have no doubt that the various navel assets in the area can locate the mother ships and, in short order the small boats dispatched from them. It is my understanding that many of the mother ships are fishing trawlers pirated from other nations (tho' perhaps not all). Never-the-less these mother ships, presumably pasing themselves off as "fishing boats" can, and should, be stopped, searched, and "relieved" of their weapons and ammunition. After all, an unarmed pirate isn't much of a pirate, and a fishing boat engaged in fishing has no need of AK-47's, M-60's or their Russian/Chinese counterparts, or RPG's. It would not take much of a search to turn up such items and no effort to dump them over the side. Shoot, we could even give the "poor fishermen" receipts.

During the Viet Nam war, the Viet Cong routinely set up "Rice Tax" check points on the canals and rivers in IV Corps to extract payments from villagers and "recruit" (impress) "soldiers" (mostly teenage boys) that went with them due to threats against the boys' families. Under the then prevailing Rules of Engagement, we could not take direct action against them unless we were fired upon first and, at that point, the VC were too smart to drop the hammer on an RPB backed up by one or more gun-ships unless in a pre-planned ambush. Disarmed, however, the cadres that manned these check-points had nothing over the villagers, who sometimes meted out their own "justice" before we were even completely off the scene.

Simply disarming these "Pirates" would not be a complete solution. But it would be a good start that would not offend the sensabilities of the weak kneed politicians and apologists for the "poor, exploited, Somalies".

FWIW...
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Old 01-03-2011, 00:43   #128
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

CORRECTION: "Richard Bolt, a director of Blue Water Rallies, confirmed that the event had been cancelled and said part of the reason was the threat to safety."

The 2011-2013 Blue Water Rally would have been the ninth edition of this biennial event but the route would have taken sailors into pirate-infested waters off Somalia.

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Old 01-03-2011, 04:04   #129
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

To "not go there" is not an option. To "not go there" means shutting down the Suez Canal. Already these thugs put the piracy surcharge on every thing shipped to and from SE Asia. And remember there are hundreds of Indians, Philippinos and other working poor who serve as crew on commercial shipping that right now in the hands of the pirates awaiting ransom. I dare to say that it is a quiet and subtle racism that has allowed the pirates to exists as long as they have. If the 600-700 current hostages were predominately Americans, Europeans, Aussies and Russians this thing would have been over long ago.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:18   #130
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

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Originally Posted by SailingSooner View Post
To "not go there" is not an option. To "not go there" means shutting down the Suez Canal. Already these thugs put the piracy surcharge on every thing shipped to and from SE Asia. And remember there are hundreds of Indians, Philippinos and other working poor who serve as crew on commercial shipping that right now in the hands of the pirates awaiting ransom. I dare to say that it is a quiet and subtle racism that has allowed the pirates to exists as long as they have. If the 600-700 current hostages were predominately Americans, Europeans, Aussies and Russians this thing would have been over long ago.
Now that's a fact, Jack.

Good post.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:05   #131
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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Originally Posted by svBeBe View Post
The father told me that he was not worried about pirates because he was going to stick to recommended routes i.e. Jimmy Cornell, IRTC, etc. He said that no yachts had ever been taken while sticking to recommended routes.
Books are not up to date enough for this sort of stuff.

These people would have been at sea when the Quest was captured so not much they could have done.

People gotta realise the route from the Maldives to Salalah and the route the ships do from the bottom of India to the IRTC intersect right where the Danish yacht appears to have been taken.

At least next year there will be fewer people who can plead ignorance.

Finally, I fail to see how someone who has the money to employ 2 crew don't have the money to fly their kids instead of transiting that dangerous area on their pat malone...
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:07   #132
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

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If the 600-700 current hostages were predominately Americans, Europeans, Aussies and Russians this thing would have been over long ago.
I agree.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:10   #133
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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Im all for action ( now), but rash reactions dont help. Firslty a major military move, would probably result in mass hostage killings, you might of have forgotton that there are more then 650 people held hostage. I wouldnt fancy their chances as a result of an assualt. Pirates on being paid a ransom have released crews unharmed.

Secondly, "wild west" talk of "wiping it off the map" simply oberlooks the fact that the vast majority of Somalis are not pirates, this is a relatively small group. If it is a "war" its one of the ultimate asymetric ones, Resolving this, without sacrificing the hostages is going to be very tricky

"But in a nation overun by bleeding heart liberals," this is an unfortunate turn of phrase, its more likely stated " my nation understand this is difficult to resolve without innocent lives being lost and is reacting in a careful manner".

dave
A couple of problems here. Somalia hasn't a government. At all. It's run by a bunch of goons, criminals and pirates.

So - declaring war on the country is just not going to work.

Most of the people there aren't criminals.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:18   #134
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

Iíve seen a lot of discussion about the plight of the poor Somaliís: poor, uneducated, hungry, no jobsÖÖ Much of which is true, but these people are not stupid. They have clearly evaluated western civilization and have decided that they can make a lot of money with no or little risk. This whole pirate thing is a business and nothing more. Itís not much different that the show Deadliest Catch. You get a bunch of investors to buy a boat and hire a crew of young men by giving them an opportunity to earn a lot of money in a very short period of time. As soon as the first boat catches a bunch of crab (or ships) and makes a small fortune, a whole lot more people invest in more boats and pretty soon you have a small fleet. Every year a couple of boats and crews are lost in the Bering Sea crab fisheries, but that doesnít stop the fishery and killing pirates and sinking motherships will never stop the Somali pirate business, because there will always be young men willing to take the risk for a chance at a big reward. Currently there are pirate stock exchanges in several Somali cities in which local Somaliís can invest in pirate ventures. Itís a risk reward equation just like all businesses. There is virtually no risk to investors as long as western countries and businesses are willing to pay ransoms. They have decided that western countries are too civilized and humane to take any significant action. If Iím an investor and I invest $500 in a pirate venture, Iím at virtually no risk. If I live 5 miles from the pirate headquarters and the pirate activity pisses off a country even a cowboy country like the US, they will use precision weapons and may at most destroy a couple of buildings, but none near my house. Even if the pirates on occasion kill a couple of crews of pleasure yachts to punctuate their seriousness on the ransom demands for the current vessels and hostages I can count on western countries not to do anything that will endanger me or my family. These people may be uneducated but they are not stupid. They have correctly read the civilized world. As long as the serious risk is assumed by a few volunteers for the prospect of great rewards, there will never be a shortage of investors. The loss of a pirate ship or crew is simply the cost of doing business, just like the occasional loss of a crab boat in the Bering Sea. The only reason the investors will stop is if they believe that they are at serious risk. These investors are throughout the population and inseparable from the ďinnocentĒ Somalis. As long as western civilization is not willing to endanger the innocent, there will be no end to this.

During the cold War the US and USSR never got into a shooting war because they both had targeted their innocent civilian populations with nuclear weapons. Essentially holding each otherís innocent civilians as hostages against either side firing the fist shot. If it was clear that only the militaries were at risk, we probably would not survived. The Somaliís are doing what theyíre doing because they have decided that they can take our people hostage and even kill them and the west will never put at risk anyone but the direct actors and we will never harm or take hostage any Somalis. They have absolutely no reason not to fire the first shot. I think the only solution is to hold Somalia, or at least the cities where these pirate operations are centered, hostage to the actions of these pirates, but the pirates have decided (probably correctly) that civilized western countries will never do that. As a consequence they are free to capture and even kill our innocents without ever putting their innocents at risk. As I said these people may be uneducated but are not stupid, but they have correctly deduced that we are educated, but stupid.

So to keep this on the sailing, the only alternative to protect cruisers is donít go there. I donít think disarming pirates will protect cruisers that have been disarmed already by their governments (citizen of the world view as most countries do not allow cruisers to carry weapons). While a lack of weapons may prevent them from successfully attacking a large commercial vessel, I seriously doubt that it would be that much trouble for a group of 19 pirates to overpower an unarmed crew of four cruisers even if the only weapon they had was their fists. Once they have the crew if approached by an armed vessel, they could kill the hostages with a kitchen knife probably taken from the vesselís own galley. If the mother ships were in fact disarmed it would force pirates to go after softer targets (cruisers) putting us in even more jeopardy. Unfortunately this leaves the only safe solution is to not be anywhere near where these pirates are operating. Letís just hope poor, uneducated people in countries all over the world arenít as smart as the Somalis.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:26   #135
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Re: Danish Yacht Taken by Pirates

Most of people here want the pirates to be wiped out from the sea...
The means of doing this are disputable, but this is common wish in general.

But it looks the things are going opposite way - tte pirates are pushing us out of the sea - at least out of the Indian Ocean... Not the smallest stretch of the water...

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=21174

http://www.sail-world.com/Cruising/international/World-circumnavigation-rally-cancelled-nine-months-out/80703

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/517267/uk-s-oldest-world-cruise-cancelled

http://www2.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Content/View.aspx?g=News&c=Cruising&id=4635424
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