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Old 28-02-2011, 14:23   #91
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I suspect that ING may be used to get the QUEST pirates back from the US. I strongly feel that they went "looking" for a yacht.
You may be right that there is some need for 'revenge', but I would have guessed the guys out on the water were more motivated by money and believed 'life is cheap' and did not really care too much what happened to their 'fellow' pirates, and they just happened to stumble across ING and took them.

But I can't even pretend to understand the pirate's thinking process or their ability to 'go looking for a yacht'.

It will be fascinating to see what the military approach is to this one. I hope it works out better for the hostages, but I equally hope they stop it cold and don't let the vessel or pirates get 'home' to Somalia.
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Old 28-02-2011, 14:25   #92
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

I think that Bash has it right - this site has a duty to keep the cruising community informed and, while there is nothing we can do to assist those who have already been captured, we can certainly assist in posting information that may cause other cruisers to adjust their own plans and avoid areas that are particularly 'hot'. Even if these posts are being monitored by the pirates, I can see nothing that has been posted that could possibly hurt the chances of these most recent victims.

Furthermore, posts speaking to the west's disdain (I know, too soft a word) for the pirates, or our hope that the world's navies can take a stronger stance would hardly be news to the pirates. They are in no way motivated by public opinion.

Let us monitor the situation and, where possible, make suggestions for minimizing the risk to those who are (or feel they are) compelled to sail in these waters. For example, the information concerning the detection of HF signals and the suggestions for the removal of radar reflectors and route-tracking sites are, IMO, quite sensible. Surely this too is a subject about which this site has a duty to provide a forum.

In the final analysis, a large number of cruisers are participants in this forum; for many, access to this site is not ony more convenient, but more likely to provide information and viewpoints that would be of benefit to them than standard news services. Surely we must continue providing information about events such as this, handy links to news reports concerning the status of each case and suggestions for future avoidance.

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Old 28-02-2011, 14:36   #93
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

The realities of RDF are subject to a lot of variables. Even the USCG at US coastal stations can't do plain RDF on VHF calls much of the time, because they have no equipment, don't know how to use it, or don't get a long enough signal.

Meanwhile charter fishing boats have VHF RDF radios that light and and give a directional fix in seconds, and that's 1980's technology.

For pirates or anyone else to use RDF, they need to have equipment set up for each band they want to monitor (and that's many) and then operators who know how to use it, and preferably two or three stations each generating a bearing so they can get a cross-fix. That's an investment.

Easier to look and listen, and then go out fishing.
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Old 28-02-2011, 14:38   #94
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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But I can't even pretend to understand the pirate's thinking process or their ability to 'go looking for a yacht'.

It will be fascinating to see what the military approach is to this one. I hope it works out better for the hostages, but I equally hope they stop it cold and don't let the vessel or pirates get 'home' to Somalia.
What I meant is that , I suspect , on the basis on the pirate figures, that yachts have to some extent been "left alone", Pirates are using quite sophiscated mother ships, including some big taiwasese fishing ships. These would have good radar etc.

I really think intervention would be a bad idea, they be better off brought ashore, any action on the high seas would result in faltalities. Theres has been NO suscessfull at sea rescue of a yacht yet ,that did not fail in one sense or another, I beleive. ( Tanit,Choizil,Quest)

This will have to handled carefully , However, if god forbid, anything happens or we get them back, lets clear the area, and take the gloves of the navvies. We'll work out the legalities afterwords ( as in, ok sue us!)

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Old 28-02-2011, 14:42   #95
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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Yes, but what good does it do. They undoutably know the risks when setting off, subsequently telling them that a yacht has been pirated, when they are out there isnt much help.

Dave
Skippers make their decisions based on known (and sometimes guessed at) information.

What good would it do to give them more information? I don't know...

As to the response about afixing the data to the weather faxes.

Most of that is generated by either US Weather services and I can't imagine them taking time out of their busy day (I used to storm chase, they don't have time for pirates you know!) to figure that out!

Have you ever been involved with any particular branch of any government? They each have their "niches" and damned if they will go outside of the scope of what their charter says.

I don't think that will happen
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Old 28-02-2011, 14:46   #96
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

Wouldn't that be ironic if these were the same pirates that Danish navy caught and released a few weeks ago... Just another example of political correctness gone too far.
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Old 28-02-2011, 14:48   #97
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

I have to wonder about the pirates form of communication. In the Quest situation they are using sat phones. Don't we have a way to block or monitor these communications? It's hard to believe these guys have it so easy. And where is the mother ship? We can't find it? I realize there's a lot of boats but it can't be that difficult to track one.
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Old 28-02-2011, 14:53   #98
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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I have to wonder about the pirates form of communication. In the Quest situation they are using sat phones. Don't we have a way to block or monitor these communications? It's hard to believe these guys have it so easy. And where is the mother ship? We can't find it? I realize there's a lot of boats but it can't be that difficult to track one.

I don't think they have tried before with regards to the pirates. I think they have been reacting rather than being proactive. Hopefully this tactic will change.
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Old 28-02-2011, 14:55   #99
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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If Congress were to declare war on Somalia, they could easily task the military with wiping it off the map, using tried and true 100-year old military techniques. But in a nation overun by bleeding heart liberals, that ain't gonna happen. Hasn't happened since WW2.
Im all for action ( now), but rash reactions dont help. Firslty a major military move, would probably result in mass hostage killings, you might of have forgotton that there are more then 650 people held hostage. I wouldnt fancy their chances as a result of an assualt. Pirates on being paid a ransom have released crews unharmed.

Secondly, "wild west" talk of "wiping it off the map" simply oberlooks the fact that the vast majority of Somalis are not pirates, this is a relatively small group. If it is a "war" its one of the ultimate asymetric ones, Resolving this, without sacrificing the hostages is going to be very tricky

"But in a nation overun by bleeding heart liberals," this is an unfortunate turn of phrase, its more likely stated " my nation understand this is difficult to resolve without innocent lives being lost and is reacting in a careful manner".

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Old 28-02-2011, 15:00   #100
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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I have to wonder about the pirates form of communication. In the Quest situation they are using sat phones. Don't we have a way to block or monitor these communications? It's hard to believe these guys have it so easy. And where is the mother ship? We can't find it? I realize there's a lot of boats but it can't be that difficult to track one.
I really dont think people have read enough or understand the issues for the worlds navies. The pirates have several large vessels as motherships, I suspect the navies know exactly where they are, BUT, they ships have human shields, lots of them, actions against the motherships will result in loss of these lives. If thats OK for you, then OK ( but of course you arnt a hostage).

The military simply cant act, because of this situation. It may be that the world will reach a situation that requires a sacrifice of these hostages ( or a vain attempt to rescue all of them in one go). The military strategy/tactics and logistics of solving this crisis are enormous. DO you really think if it was as simple as letting the Navy act that this wouldnt have already been tried.

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Old 28-02-2011, 15:01   #101
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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And where is the mother ship? We can't find it? I realize there's a lot of boats but it can't be that difficult to track one.
There was a danish media report that the ING was being towed by the pirates toward Somalia - if that's true I would think it would have to be the 'mother ship' doing the towing.

I am sure NSA is listening to and tracking every sat phone call in the region. But I am equally sure there is too large an 'intelligence to operation' lag to make it very useful, unless more resource were poured in.
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Old 28-02-2011, 15:27   #102
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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If Congress were to declare war on Somalia, they could easily task the military with wiping it off the map, using tried and true 100-year old military techniques. But in a nation overun by bleeding heart liberals, that ain't gonna happen. Hasn't happened since WW2.
I wish I lived in the same reality as you do, because in my reality the US has gone to war several times since WW2. I don't know, is it un-American of me to wish that we'd had less war in the past half century?

For the record, lets get one fact straight: If Somalia bombed Pearl Harbor, even this "nation overrun by bleeding hear liberals" would go to war.
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Old 28-02-2011, 15:30   #103
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

This thread finally got me to try the "ignore user" option ... relief !



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Old 28-02-2011, 15:34   #104
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

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I am sure NSA is listening to and tracking every sat phone call in the region. But I am equally sure there is too large an 'intelligence to operation' lag to make it very useful, unless more resource were poured in.
But Evans, the key point ,is even so, lets say the NSA have it all and the navies have it too. Whats the good, what can they do, They are no doubt, according to media reports, shadowing the yacht. Intervention results in death of hostages, 100% of the time

This isnt an issue of military or intelligence assets, its a pure and simple problem or how to rescue innocents from such a situation. Unlike a building or even a airplane on the ground, an intervention at sea is extraordinary difficult and on a yacht, impossible to remain undectable. This isnt the movies.

Dave

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Old 28-02-2011, 15:40   #105
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Re: Danish Yacht taken by Pirates

I don't think an all out war would be the solution here. It's really only a small percentage of the Somali population that is involved. There is no real government there to wage war on anyway. I think something more along the lines of an all out blockade would be more effective. Killing indiscriminately wouldn't solve the problem. Bombing just for bombing's sake might make a few people here on CF feel better for a while but will ultimately just breed more pirates for a later date. It will have to be a coalition effort and not just one nation acting unilaterally. It will take an immense effort and assets/manpower to pull off. We will see what kind of will our world has right now.
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