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Old 15-12-2011, 12:04   #451
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Re: Crew of S/V 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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For awhile SF Bay area was considering a requirement that all boats in a marina be wheelchair accessible.
Really? The boats themselves? That's ludicrous. I could see the docks, but the boats? Clearly the person that thought that up is clueless.
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Old 15-12-2011, 13:32   #452
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It was undoubtably a building code official who has too much time and not enough common sense.
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Old 15-12-2011, 13:51   #453
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Re: Crew of S/V 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Really? The boats themselves? That's ludicrous. I could see the docks, but the boats? Clearly the person that thought that up is clueless.
The Bay Area and indeed the state of California has always been on the forefront of concerns for the disadvantaged few of our population.

Many court decisions have not been based on logic or common sense.
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Old 21-12-2011, 18:33   #454
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Originally Posted by maytrix

Really? The boats themselves? That's ludicrous. I could see the docks, but the boats? Clearly the person that thought that up is clueless.
I suspect this was a misunderstanding somewhere along the way.

Marinas all over the state and indeed the country are being forced to be ADA compliant. It seems to be restricted to when they do a major project - repairs don't trigger it but reconfiguring the docks would - and it's certainly necessary. I've been on a number of recreational docks that are scarcely safely accessible to the able bodied at very low tide. A wheelchair on one would be a death sentence.

The ADA does not apply to private vessels, vehicles or domiciles. This doesn't mean that some pencil pusher in a rental office didn't spout off about something he didn't know about. I've noticed that the office staff in many marinas tends to be remarkably clueless about... Well... Darn near everything to do with boats or marinas.
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Old 21-12-2011, 19:44   #455
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Re: Crew of S/V 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

"Marinas all over the state and indeed the country are being forced to be ADA compliant. "
It isn't just marinas, all sorts of commercial buildings and operations, which have continued to ignore the issue for decades, are finally being forced to ante up. Usually changes are required if one of two things happens: If a "tenant" makes a request for reasonable accomodation, AFAIK it cannot be denied. And when a building owner makes a "major" modification, they're required to do all the new work up to ADA access standards.
If there are residences (liveaboards) in the marinas, I wouldn't be surprised if that tolled ADA requirements. If the docks were considered to be a public space, i.e. like a public beach boardwalk, again, there are trip points and when they are reached, all new work has to meet ADA spec.
Some of the compliance is sheer idiocy, like sidewalk cuts at intersections where they have cut both "sides" of a corner, leaving a 12" wide tripping hazard on the funny angle standing between them. (OSHA would call that a tripping hazard.) Other times more sense has been used and the corner is simply beveled down, and that can solve a lot of access problems for a lot of people.

ADA requirements? A lot of them are pretty reasonable. Folks who step up and make their places more accessible and better compliant before they get ordered to do so, tend to have fewer problems and happier customers.

ADA compliant wheel-chair accessible boat? Yeah, sure, I think that's called Carnival Line.
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Old 21-12-2011, 22:25   #456
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Re: Crew of S/V 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

The main problem with making docks accessable for wheelchair access in the state of California is something called tides and the effect an eight foot tidal range has on the ramp from the shore to the dock. Sometimes at low tide a person is almost required to use a rope to lower one self to the dock. I suppose an elevator could serve the purpose but the guard rails to insure that one did not fall into the water would hinder access to the boat.

Then I suppose that some kind of hoist to transport the individual aboard the boat should be mandatory. Also seatbelts should be required while on the boat, and helmets to protect ones head from a boom. I'm still thinking of ways to make a restroom available on a boat for those confined to a wheelchair.
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Old 22-12-2011, 05:41   #457
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Re: Crew of S/V 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

Not a big one on the Namby Pamby State (to put it mildly ).......but on this I am all in favour of a gradual process being forced through as properties etc get developed / re-developed......and as much as possible not on my dime (via Taxes).

I think you will find that most people who use Wheelchairs are not actually 100% confined to them - just unable to walk distances (or deal with stairs etc) but are still able to move self from wheelchair to wherever, even if that takes a little time.....so it's not all simply about ramps.

Same with Blind people - most of 'em can see!, just to varying degrees (whether only light / shapes / Mr Magoo or whatever)........funniest story I heard recently was a Blind person who said she always found it a bit awkward when she got onto trains with her white stick and someone offered her their seat ..........as when she started to read (not Braille) the whole carriage would go kinda quiet - she couldn't see f#ck all beyond a few feet, apart from fuzzy stuff.....


Anyway, at the end of the day the blind person and / or wheelchair user probably won't ever (again?) be climbing all over a boat as I do - but one day it may be me in that Wheelchair or using a white stick......good to have some things to help me sorted in advance - just in case.
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Old 22-12-2011, 19:33   #458
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MODS: All the recent posts about ADA requirements should be a separate thread. I keep getting tricked, thinking there is an update to the status of the drifting boat.
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Old 23-12-2011, 03:53   #459
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Re: Crew of S/V 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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MODS: All the recent posts about ADA requirements should be a separate thread. I keep getting tricked, thinking there is an update to the status of the drifting boat.
I agree! Topic has drifted farther than the boat!
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Old 23-12-2011, 04:42   #460
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Re: Crew of S/V 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

Thats whats happens when you use the wrong sort of anchor
sorry could not resist
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Old 23-12-2011, 04:47   #461
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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If this is one of the older ('88 onwards) "Kevlar energised" hulls, delamination is not THAT unrealistic. Mme Beneteau' s factory decided to experiment adding a layer of Kevlar in the hull laminate.

Point is that Kevlar bonding with glass laminate requires minimal the use of vinylester resin - but this was not executed by Beneteau.
On the '88 HISWA Symposium we made a remark about this to Peter Dehler,
to whom we showed our bonding experiments. Even epoxy at that period was hardly used in production yachtbuilding. Dehler decided not to use exotic fabrics.
Later on Dupont gave Kevlar a different surface treatment so that it could used in regular glass laminates.

So, if this Beneteau is one of the 88-90's production boats I would not rule out delamination alltogether.
Maybe but this is all speculation and this is how stories about brands start. Statements like this may be true, but without real life examples are rumors that on the internet start being written about like it is a act. Next thing you know everyone thinks the boats rudders just fall off etc.

I'm still waiting on some comment on the delamination from someone who was there. Since it was part of the story I would think we could learn why the skipper thought this so we could learn from this.

It would appear that whatever the "delamination" really was it didn't sink the boat!
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Old 23-12-2011, 05:24   #462
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Other than seeing it, how would one know they had delamination? Would there be cracking sounds or something like that?
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