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Old 11-11-2011, 12:04   #361
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
huh... there must be something in there about safe sex and safe sailing and reducing risks....
Precisely why I always keep a condom taped to my EPIRB.
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Old 11-11-2011, 13:18   #362
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Precisely why I always keep a condom taped to my EPIRB.
There has to be a joke in there somewhere about being careful not to pull out too early.....
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Old 11-11-2011, 13:58   #363
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
The Coast Guard did not retrieve them from their boat. They flew around in circles watching.
Maybe they weren't the boots on the ground...but without the USCG coordination center and the Herc crew...there's a distinct possibility the rescue may have never happened.
They probably helped coordinate the rescue and helped the cruise ship find the sailboat.....so flying around in circles was their job and it seems to have paid off.
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Old 11-11-2011, 14:09   #364
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

Indeed psneeld, just keeping the record straight.
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Old 11-11-2011, 14:09   #365
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Clearly, we differ in experiences and opinions. Interestingly, I shared your views up to the point when we got badly knocked down and nearly rolled over. I assigned our mishap to staying hove to long after the conditions deteriorated to the point where this technique is (IMHO) no longer safe for a small craft.

To me, the scenario: "... we went down below, closed all hatches and then IT happened..." is way to common to be counted as an accident. I strongly believe that in a small craft it is dangerous to lay hove to in any developed storm.

Let's hope our respective storm handling tactics will pay back to each of us with many safe returns!

Cheers,
b.
Ahhhh...the real answer to storm survival tactics....to many conditions...too many options..

I always am amazed to hear people profess what worked for them must be the right answer. How many others thought that what they were doing was working right up to the point of getting rescued or didn't survive their disaster.

The only right answer to surviving a storm is to recognize early what ISN'T working and get on with plan B before death results. There are a lot of things that will work...or at least work for awhile or for certain conditions.

If after surviving 100 or so storm survival situations in 50 different kinds of boats...then I would sit and eagerly listen to your words of wisdom and memorize them. Everyone else's choice of how to survive storms is somewhere between luck and skill...closer to skill the more storms you have survived.
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Old 11-11-2011, 14:11   #366
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Indeed psneeld, just keeping the record straight.
Hope so......I'll bet the USCG diverted the cruise ship because they didn't want to scratch the nice white paint on one of their cutters!
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Old 11-11-2011, 14:18   #367
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pirate Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Clearly, we differ in experiences and opinions. Interestingly, I shared your views up to the point when we got badly knocked down and nearly rolled over. I assigned our mishap to staying hove to long after the conditions deteriorated to the point where this technique is (IMHO) no longer safe for a small craft.

To me, the scenario: "... we went down below, closed all hatches and then IT happened..." is way to common to be counted as an accident. I strongly believe that in a small craft it is dangerous to lay hove to in any developed storm.

Let's hope our respective storm handling tactics will pay back to each of us with many safe returns!

Cheers,
b.
Amen....
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Old 11-11-2011, 14:30   #368
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Actually it did survive the storm, it was the crew that wanted off.


As I read the skippers posts, he had determined that the boat was likely to not survive further weather, and thus he abandoned her. To me, this constitutes not surviving the storm. Had the boat not been taking on water at what he thought was a dangerous rate, I doubt if he would have abandoned her.

Funny again the boat didnt sink. What in the name of god does your argument prove, would GRP Hinckley ( now no longer made) survive any different I doubt it.


I'm not sure what argument you think I am making. I have no knowledge of Hinkleys, nor opinions about them other than aesthetic (good looking boats)

All this shows is that steel boats are stronger in a collision then GRP, whoes disputing that.


No, at least IMO these photos show that this boat was lightly constructed and suffered serious damage in a collision. And yes, I do believe that a boat of stronger construction would have fared better in this situation. I further believe that PERHAPS a stronger boat would not have been taking on water and then abandoned in the Sanctuary case, but that will forever be unknown.

These arguments are fatuous, The fact is reality disputes what you say. Virtually everyone has converted to fin keel and spade rudder, even stalwarts like HR. You'll be arguing the steam engine was superior next.



Say what??? I must have lost the plot here, mate. Are you saying that I don't like fin keels? Having only owned fin keeled boats for the last 40 years I fail to meet the description. And while I admire steam engines, I've not thought to put one in a sailboat yet. Could you elaborate on this a bit?

Its a form of elitism really (ogh Jim look, one of those horrible Bendys has got into our yacht club whatever will we do....)


Now that seems like a personal attack, and I sorta resent being slanged.

On my part, I don't believe that I am elitist and I don't belong to a yacht club. I've never attacked Bendies, Hunters or whatever per se. I have seen them in many of the remote anchorages we've visited, I've enjoyed being aboard them as a guest, and have many good friends who own such vessels. I can, however, see shortcomings in some of them, and when I think that photographic evidence of light construction might be of common interest, I will likely post it. If you find this offensive, I'm sorry.


Dave
Cheers,

Jim
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Old 11-11-2011, 17:43   #369
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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On my part, I don't believe that I am elitist and I don't belong to a yacht club. I've never attacked Bendies, Hunters or whatever per se. I have seen them in many of the remote anchorages we've visited, I've enjoyed being aboard them as a guest, and have many good friends who own such vessels. I can, however, see shortcomings in some of them, and when I think that photographic evidence of light construction might be of common interest, I will likely post it. If you find this offensive, I'm sorry

what photographic evidence. What you posted was teh damage caused in a collision. It is in no way evidence of "light construction". please

As to S/V Santuary, the skipper himself commented on the strength of the boat. It my experience most rescues come from the crew deciding to quit mostly through a desire not to get hurt., They are after all doing this for fun. Often there is crew panic etc. But few encounters relate such panic as no one wants to get suited for slander or libel.

for example will anyone say " sure John lost it panicked and hit the EPIRN button" no they will not, they will construct a story mostly correct but which focuses on mechanical things

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Old 11-11-2011, 19:25   #370
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

I think the technique is called C.Y.A. Been there, done that myself. IMHO, one would be rather foolish not to C.Y.A. in today's litigious world.
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Old 11-11-2011, 19:27   #371
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

Dave, what statistics can you point to that would support your statement? Or is this just what you would do so you are projecting it on to everyone?
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Old 11-11-2011, 21:51   #372
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Most boats had multiple excuses. Most floated off after the crew were rescued. Cracked or delaminated bulkheads engine failure and electrical failure are often attributed, rarely have I heard the crew were in a an alien environment and could not take any more..
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:05   #373
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Most boats had multiple excuses. Most floated off after the crew were rescued. Cracked or delaminated bulkheads engine failure and electrical failure are often attributed, rarely have I heard the crew were in a an alien environment and could not take any more..
Not true. Publicly few say it. But interesting read about S/V Trimuph on Sailnet His description is very close to many situations and he's very very candid.

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Old 12-11-2011, 05:39   #374
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

hello - a very impressive 3 days' battle! I hazard some suggestions for how I am planning my 'storm defence strategy':

1 drogue - enough to keep speed down at 2-5 knots
2 sea berths - 'pipe cot' lee cloths holding crew on all sides
3 positive locks on all cupboards. sole boards screwed down with wing nuts
4 no glass on board
5 reserve emergency battery bank of 2 deep cycle in sealed locker , with provision of clips for 'bare wire' connection of iridium etc
6 cage over liferaft to protect it.
7 don't touch a french cruiser/racer design ever, they are much too tender (unless you carry a decent drogue...)

what do you think?

Capn John
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:55   #375
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

I think some of your things are good, and others I doubt you will really do, and 1 is just stirring the pot of silt for no reason.
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