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Old 03-11-2011, 09:52   #226
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pirate Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Lengthening the storm???? How fast do you think you are possibly going???
Well I've surfed at up to 18kts in a Cat with 1/4 jib no main... av 12kts... a Catalac...
Mono's up to 16kts... 1/4 jib and then bare poles... became to tired to helm after 14hrs(solo) so chose to lay a-hull.... that was scarey.... getting her round without being rolled....
Been an avid follower of the 'Heave To' mantra ever since...
Who knows what the weathers gonna be like in 6-8hrs and up to 80 miles further down the road...
Hell I've seen torrents and white water 1/2 a mile away and I've been in a F3 and sunshine... ran parallel for a couple of hours then veered away...
I'm happy to be resting in a comfy berth while it blows itself out...
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:05   #227
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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I never used a Jordan Series Drogue, so I can't comment on that.
However, I believe in speed and manoeuvrability during a storm. Speed gives you manoeuvrability to present quickly the stern of your vessel to the breaking wave. The down side of this is you are covering a lot of distance, not necessarily in the right direction...
The buffet and bar on the Gem were awesome! Their sense of hospitality is exceptional.
Cool. Thanks Cap. I bet after two days of being bashed around at the wheel and eating/drinking only spindrift, lobster bisque and a nice single malt whiskey were kind of a treat.

Glad you guys are safe. This was quite a tale.

After reading everything I've read on them, I do think I'm going to get the JSD. Just gives us another option. I guess the idea of slowing to 2 knots, not having to steer, and staying below sure sounds like bisque and whiskey to me.

(Of course, then that 45' breaker will come along and poop us. So whaddayagonnado?)
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:19   #228
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Well I've surfed at up to 18kts in a Cat with 1/4 jib no main... av 12kts... a Catalac...
Mono's up to 16kts... 1/4 jib and then bare poles... became to tired to helm after 14hrs(solo) so chose to lay a-hull.... that was scarey.... getting her round without being rolled....
I've done 21 in a tri, and 18 in an upside-down shark, but never anywhere near that high in a traditional winer. Things got too fast for control so drogue it was. But these were smaller trad. boats - all under 32ft. heave too is a warm thought. But Lay a-hill thats scary to salty monkey!

PS; I like purdey idea of using a loop of garden hose in the middle of a warp for a drogue, but don't know if this is just a old wives tale.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:25   #229
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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I have used a drogue to good effect on one occasion, but I can see the logic in not running (all considerations of searoom aside). The problem with running is that it lengthens the time you are affected by the storm -- you're traveling with it instead of letting it pass.
Well, if you're surfing at say, 9 knots, you're going 9 knots with a storm that might be itself moving no faster than that, or at best maybe a few knots faster. Yes, it would make a difference, as Lin and Larry Pardy have noted in their book Storm Tactics.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:45   #230
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

sneuman - depends on where you are sailing I believe. higher lats storm should be moving faster than lower lats?

either way, I am all for staying put inside snug and secure - playing a nice game of chess or pik-up-sticks.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:20   #231
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

Hummingway-
"Is this true? I thought if called the CG and ask to be taken off everyone has to get off. "
I think you will find that most Coasties are fairly reasonable folks, sometimes obscured by the GungHos and bureaucrats amongst them. If you've said you are abandoning ship, they might expect everyone to leave. If you call for a medevac, they only expect to take the disabled party(s).
If you are careful about what you request and how you request it, I have found they are fast to read between the lines and to give you whatever slack is appropriate. You want to stay on the boat? it isn't as if they have a special fleet of orange SWAT copters waiting with extra crew to force you OFF the boat. That's not their job and they're damn well not going to endanger themselves forcing you off your own boat. Bear in mind, their own policies require them not to needlessly endanger their own personnel. If it is dangerous to effect a transfer of a crew who is TRYING to get off a boat, what would you call an attempt to forcibly remove a crew who was resisting the effort? Damned idiocy might be a good phrase.

If you refuse assistance and they're not mandated to remove you (i.e. a manifestly unsafe vessel) either by law or because of something you've said, they're not going to remove you. They've got better things to do.

What happens after you get to the dock, is another story best left to paper pushers to deal with. I'm sure the Commandant would not want the PR nightmare of "Coast Guard arrests sailor who declined rescue, made it safely to port. Sailor says, I didn't ask for a rescue." Yeah, that would play out well in the next round of budget allocations, wouldn't it?

Thank you for taking the evacuees, have a nice day. Happier ending for everyone.
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Old 03-11-2011, 16:20   #232
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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I have used a drogue to good effect on one occasion, but I can see the logic in not running (all considerations of searoom aside). The problem with running is that it lengthens the time you are affected by the storm -- you're traveling with it instead of letting it pass.
depends which semi-circle your in...and we all know which one you should be in if you watch the weather forecasts...
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Old 03-11-2011, 16:23   #233
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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CapPatAg,

She's sitting on her lines because the crew had been manually pumping out the incoming seawater. Check some of Captain Simon's earlier posts for the details.
If a crew is keeping up enough with the inflow to stay on your lines...you ain't sinking...you are taking on water...manually removing water from a boat even with 2 big hand pumps is a spit in the wind when there's a hull breach.
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Old 04-11-2011, 05:47   #234
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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If a crew is keeping up enough with the inflow to stay on your lines...you ain't sinking...you are taking on water...manually removing water from a boat even with 2 big hand pumps is a spit in the wind when there's a hull breach.
Of course, you're right. The weren't sinking. But remember that Captain Simon wrote that he believed the leak(s) to be the result of hull damage, possibly delamination. You have to consider the possiblility of the next big wave slamming into the boat opening up a really big hole.

So no, they weren't sinking at the time of the rescue. But what's your point? Are you implying they should have carried on?
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Old 04-11-2011, 05:56   #235
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Of course, you're right. The weren't sinking. But remember that Captain Simon wrote that he believed the leak(s) to be the result of hull damage, possibly delamination. You have to consider the possiblility of the next big wave slamming into the boat opening up a really big hole.

So no, they weren't sinking at the time of the rescue. But what's your point? Are you implying they should have carried on?
After hundreds of at sea rescues and savlages in both past and present jobs..and fomer head of a major military safety branch...you'll notice I haven't commented whether they should or shouldn't have...just stated some relative facts.

Without a lot more evidence than what's been presented here...I wouldn't dare venture a guess.

I do sympathize with the skipper as a delivery captain as I am one too...and it is TOTALLY different jumping on a boat that's not yousrs and heading out.

I'll tell you one thing though...and maybe that's why I normally don't do open ocean deliveries...if I don't know the boat or have a flex schedule/permission from the owner.....ALL my legs are as close to land as I can be. But that's just me and my survival instincts after seeing what happens at sea and being scared shi*less so many times in a 20 year USCG helo career I lost count. Dying prematurely is a risk management decision and I prefer happy hour to funerals.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:02   #236
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
depends which semi-circle your in...and we all know which one you should be in if you watch the weather forecasts...
Of course, I'm talking about something short of a cyclonic system.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:10   #237
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

so at the end we have 5 person that can carry on with there life

and 1 boat missing

so its a great ending
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:15   #238
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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Of course, I'm talking about something short of a cyclonic system.
How many non-cyclonic storms are of such magnitude or duration that you would be running before them for that long?
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:57   #239
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

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How many non-cyclonic storms are of such magnitude or duration that you would be running before them for that long?
I don't know, frankly. My drogue experience was during a typhoon that tracked fairly erratically for that time of year (in South China Sea). It originated off the Philippines, but instead of recurving over southern China, skirted up the coast of Vietnam.

In any case, I can certainly imagine a non-cyclonic storm system that would take a day or more to pass over. Again, the Pardeys have written extensively of the advantages of sea anchors/heaving to vs. drogues, and one of the main factors they cite is not prolonging one's exposure to the weather in question.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:19   #240
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Re: Crew of SV 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship

Hi,

I have added my raw video footage to youtube :
Sanctuary Rescue Raw Footage - YouTube

Here is the video edit version :
Norwegian Gem rescues sailboat in north Atlantic - 10/29/2011 - YouTube

And here are the pics :
Picasa Web Albums - eric brodeur - Sailboat resc...
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